[00:00:01] Speaker 01:
Inre Vallejo, Eduardo Enrique Vallejo, Appellant in Pro Se, Elizabeth C. Farrell, Council for Appellee, Federal National Mortgage Association.

[00:00:19] Speaker 05:
Good morning.

[00:00:23] Speaker 05:
Mr. Vallejo, would you like to reserve any time for reply?

[00:00:26] Speaker 02:
Yes, good morning, Your Honor.

[00:00:27] Speaker 02:
Yes, five minutes, Your Honor.

[00:00:28] Speaker 02:
Five minutes?

[00:00:29] Speaker 05:
Five minutes.

[00:00:30] Speaker 05:
Thank you very much.

[00:00:32] Speaker 02:
This is a very simple case, Your Honor.

[00:00:35] Speaker 02:
I retained an attorney back in 2011 and I fell to bankruptcy.

[00:00:39] Speaker 02:
The attorney handled everything for me.

[00:00:41] Speaker 02:
I was working at Chase Bank at that time.

[00:00:43] Speaker 02:
I was a very good employee.

[00:00:44] Speaker 02:
I was doing loan modifications, hemp, etc.

[00:00:47] Speaker 02:
So the attorney handled everything.

[00:00:49] Speaker 02:
I didn't handle anything.

[00:00:51] Speaker 02:
And then in around 2016, I get a letter from Fannie Mae telling me that they own my loan since 2005.

[00:00:58] Speaker 02:
I bought my house around 24 years ago now.

[00:01:03] Speaker 02:
And so with that letter, I decided to open up an adversary proceeding, reopen that bankruptcy.

[00:01:10] Speaker 02:
Last year in 2023, I reopened it.

[00:01:12] Speaker 02:
I explained to the court the reasons why I was reopening the bankruptcy.

[00:01:16] Speaker 02:
And I filed the adversary proceeding very simply to quiet title.

[00:01:19] Speaker 02:
I have many, many parties, assignments, trustees, things clouding my title, my property.

[00:01:25] Speaker 02:
So that's why I filed the adversary proceeding, simply to quiet title.

[00:01:30] Speaker 02:
Then apparently the parties that are alleging to be servicers and yada yada, filed a notice of default on my property to start another foreclosure.

[00:01:38] Speaker 02:
And so at that time I filed for a preliminary injunction, which was denied.

[00:01:42] Speaker 02:
And that's the reason for the appeal.

[00:01:44] Speaker 04:
Is the question who you owe money or whether you owe money?

[00:01:51] Speaker 02:
When's the last payment you made on the loan?

[00:01:54] Speaker 02:
I made a payment of $80,000 approximately in December of last year to bring the loan current according to whoever's collecting.

[00:02:03] Speaker 02:
There was a payment of $80,000 made.

[00:02:05] Speaker 02:
So the issue is not if I owe money.

[00:02:07] Speaker 02:
I don't believe I do after 24 years of a loan.

[00:02:12] Speaker 02:
I don't believe I do, but I would like an accounting on it.

[00:02:15] Speaker 02:
I've never gotten one.

[00:02:16] Speaker 02:
And the other question you asked was, let me see.

[00:02:21] Speaker 02:
To whom did you?

[00:02:23] Speaker 02:
To whom.

[00:02:23] Speaker 02:
That's the best question, Your Honor.

[00:02:24] Speaker 02:
That's the best question.

[00:02:26] Speaker 03:
But doesn't really matter to you to whom the money is owed, does it?

[00:02:30] Speaker 02:
It does, Your Honor, because I want to make sure that I'm paying the right party.

[00:02:33] Speaker 02:
Because if I'm selling $80,000.

[00:02:35] Speaker 03:
But it's their battle if you're paying the wrong party.

[00:02:38] Speaker 03:
It's their battle to fight out between them.

[00:02:40] Speaker 03:
It's not you.

[00:02:41] Speaker 03:
You've paid the money.

[00:02:42] Speaker 03:
It's not your problem any longer after that, is it?

[00:02:45] Speaker 02:
Yes, it is, Your Honor, because now it appears there's a bank from Switzerland coming in and asking and demanding my home for an amount of money that I do not believe I owe.

[00:02:56] Speaker 04:
You don't want to pay it twice, right?

[00:02:59] Speaker 02:
Correct, Your Honor.

[00:02:59] Speaker 02:
That's exactly it.

[00:03:00] Speaker 04:
But you could have asked for an interpleader as opposed to an injunction, right?

[00:03:04] Speaker 04:
Say, I'm willing to make the payments whatever I owe.

[00:03:07] Speaker 04:
Just make sure I just don't want it to be paid to somebody that doesn't hold the debt.

[00:03:13] Speaker 02:
I could have, Your Honor, but at that moment in time, they were foreclosing on my home for the third time or fourth time.

[00:03:19] Speaker 02:
And so I had to get something in, and I filed the preliminary injunction.

[00:03:23] Speaker 02:
I'm not an attorney.

[00:03:24] Speaker 02:
I didn't have the attorney.

[00:03:24] Speaker 02:
The attorney was no longer on the case.

[00:03:27] Speaker 02:
So I had to do something.

[00:03:28] Speaker 02:
So that's why I filed the preliminary injunction.

[00:03:31] Speaker 02:
And then apparently, it was denied.

[00:03:34] Speaker 02:
I appealed.

[00:03:35] Speaker 02:
But the case continued on.

[00:03:36] Speaker 02:
And then my quiet title action has never continued.

[00:03:41] Speaker 02:
It's been dismissed.

[00:03:42] Speaker 02:
And that's the whole issue here.

[00:03:44] Speaker 02:
Where's my due process right?

[00:03:45] Speaker 02:
I just asked for a preliminary injunction.

[00:03:47] Speaker 02:
The judge didn't grant it.

[00:03:49] Speaker 02:
Okay, so be it.

[00:03:49] Speaker 02:
I understand that.

[00:03:51] Speaker 02:
But what happens to the quiet title action?

[00:03:52] Speaker 02:
Why is that dismissed?

[00:03:54] Speaker 02:
Why can't that continue, Your Honor?

[00:03:55] Speaker 02:
Why can't I clarify what documents on title and what loans and what liens and whatever these people have put on title are correct?

[00:04:02] Speaker 04:
If you go through the responding party, looking at it, there's been a series of transactions that the loan obligation's been assigned.

[00:04:11] Speaker 04:
Correct.

[00:04:13] Speaker 04:
You follow that chain, there's still only one party making a claim against you.

[00:04:18] Speaker 02:
No, Your Honor.

[00:04:19] Speaker 04:
You have two people at the same time.

[00:04:21] Speaker 02:
I've got two different companies making claims.

[00:04:24] Speaker 02:
At the same time?

[00:04:24] Speaker 02:
At the same time.

[00:04:25] Speaker 02:
I have Select Portfolio Servicing out of Utah.

[00:04:28] Speaker 02:
They're alleging that one of the trusts that they have created owns the loan, and yet I looked into Fannie Mae's allegation that they owned the loan back in that time, and apparently here's where the issue comes in, Your Honor.

[00:04:40] Speaker 02:
They don't.

[00:04:41] Speaker 02:
They put this, and I don't want to get into the securitization thing because I could talk all day about that.

[00:04:46] Speaker 02:
They put the loan, my loan, into a Remic, pass-through certificate, 2004-99 Trust.

[00:04:53] Speaker 02:
So now who am I dealing with, Your Honor?

[00:04:55] Speaker 02:
Am I dealing with Fannie Mae?

[00:04:56] Speaker 02:
Am I dealing with the Trust?

[00:04:57] Speaker 02:
Am I dealing with Select Portfolio?

[00:04:58] Speaker 03:
How many times have you raised this standing question?

[00:05:01] Speaker 03:
This is the first time, Your Honor, because I've just had the evidence.

[00:05:04] Speaker 03:
I'm afraid the record reflects that in 2016, in 2020, I think, 2021, the court entered a vexatious litigant order, which you appealed and lost in the district court and then ultimately never got the Ninth Circuit to review.

[00:05:23] Speaker 03:
So the vexatious litigant order was based on the fact that you'd raised standing

[00:05:29] Speaker 03:
a numerous times.

[00:05:30] Speaker 02:
Against different parties.

[00:05:32] Speaker 03:
Again, it's your consistently... Your honor, we're talking about 2011 here.

[00:05:36] Speaker 02:
I was not vexatious.

[00:05:37] Speaker 03:
I had an attorney in this case.

[00:05:40] Speaker 03:
But you were told in 2021 that you couldn't... A completely different party, your honor.

[00:05:46] Speaker 03:
No, that's your vision of it.

[00:05:48] Speaker 03:
The problem that we're confronted with is there's an order entered that says you can't raise standing again.

[00:05:54] Speaker 03:
You can't raise it.

[00:05:55] Speaker 03:
So what do you do?

[00:05:55] Speaker 03:
You reopen the 2011 case, and then you file the standing issue again.

[00:06:00] Speaker 02:
Yes.

[00:06:01] Speaker 02:
No, no, no.

[00:06:02] Speaker 02:
I'm not questioning standing, Your Honor.

[00:06:03] Speaker 02:
I'm questioning quiet title.

[00:06:04] Speaker 02:
No, but you sued Fannie Mae.

[00:06:07] Speaker 02:
That not the current... No, no.

[00:06:09] Speaker 02:
Now I'm suing the trust.

[00:06:11] Speaker 02:
Because Fannie Mae is no longer a party to this, Your Honor.

[00:06:13] Speaker 02:
They assigned the loan, they sold the loan to another party.

[00:06:16] Speaker 03:
Again, this is a shell game with you in terms of who the party is that you're going to sue at what point in time, depending on what the circumstances you allege.

[00:06:25] Speaker 03:
That's the problem that the courts confronted with is.

[00:06:29] Speaker 05:
And if you're suing somebody else other than Fannie Mae now, why are we here on an appeal against Fannie Mae?

[00:06:33] Speaker 02:
No, we're not on that appeal.

[00:06:34] Speaker 02:
We're on appeal for the preliminary injunction.

[00:06:36] Speaker 02:
Why wasn't it granted?

[00:06:37] Speaker 03:
No, you didn't brief the issue on the preliminary injunction.

[00:06:39] Speaker 03:
The only issue you briefed was the dismissal of the complaint.

[00:06:43] Speaker 03:
You didn't brief that issue on the preliminary injunction denial.

[00:06:47] Speaker 03:
So you waived that question.

[00:06:49] Speaker 02:
Fannie Bay brought that issue up.

[00:06:51] Speaker 02:
But all right, correct.

[00:06:52] Speaker 02:
I am appealing the dismissal of the quiet title action.

[00:06:56] Speaker 05:
What do we care about a quiet title action for a 2011 chapter 7 case?

[00:07:02] Speaker 05:
Yes.

[00:07:02] Speaker 05:
What do we care?

[00:07:03] Speaker 05:
Because I believe that your complaint indicated that it was for violation of discharge junction, which is really the only

[00:07:10] Speaker 05:
lock of jurisdiction in a closed Chapter 7 bankruptcy, right?

[00:07:16] Speaker 05:
You're not appealing.

[00:07:18] Speaker 05:
I'm not hearing anything on discharge.

[00:07:21] Speaker 02:
No, no, no.

[00:07:22] Speaker 02:
I'm appealing the fact that I filed an adversary proceeding.

[00:07:26] Speaker 02:
I have not received due process.

[00:07:27] Speaker 02:
No, no, no.

[00:07:28] Speaker 05:
What do you believe that you filed the adversary proceeding for?

[00:07:35] Speaker 02:
The adversary proceeding, I think, was very clear to quiet title of my property.

[00:07:39] Speaker 02:
Find out who the loans are.

[00:07:40] Speaker 05:
Wait, stop.

[00:07:41] Speaker 05:
This is a closed matter for 13 years in a Chapter 7.

[00:07:46] Speaker 05:
It will not affect in any way the bankruptcy estate.

[00:07:50] Speaker 05:
OK.

[00:07:51] Speaker 05:
Right?

[00:07:51] Speaker 05:
What jurisdiction, then, does the bankruptcy court have to reopen a case for a Chapter 7 quiet title action?

[00:07:59] Speaker 05:
Why should it ever be heard in bankruptcy?

[00:08:02] Speaker 02:
the defendants did not oppose jurisdictions.

[00:08:06] Speaker 05:
That's not the question here.

[00:08:07] Speaker 05:
Jurisdiction is a fundamental aspect that the court has independent duty to do.

[00:08:11] Speaker 05:
Because you alleged, or at least you stated, that you were bringing a claim for violation of the discharge order, which the bankruptcy court clearly had bankruptcy for.

[00:08:20] Speaker 05:
But the problem with that is that the basis of the discharge order was that they were trying to collect a secure debt.

[00:08:30] Speaker 05:
Which is pretty clear.

[00:08:31] Speaker 05:
Which now became unsecured.

[00:08:33] Speaker 05:
Well, that's the issue.

[00:08:38] Speaker 05:
But your only hook into bankruptcy was the violation of the discharge, and collection of a secured debt is not.

[00:08:45] Speaker 02:
I disagree with the secured part.

[00:08:48] Speaker 02:
Because once that note is transferred to a trust, it's no longer secure.

[00:08:51] Speaker 02:
When was it transferred to the trust?

[00:08:52] Speaker 02:
They separate the note from the deed of trust, Your Honor.

[00:08:54] Speaker 02:
When was it transferred to the trust?

[00:08:56] Speaker 02:
I don't know, because I've never been able to get to this point.

[00:08:58] Speaker 02:
It was after 2011, though, wasn't it?

[00:09:00] Speaker 02:
No, I've never been able to get to this point.

[00:09:01] Speaker 02:
I got the letter in 2016 from Fannie Mae, and so I looked into it, and suddenly I find out that it's been transferred to a trust, Your Honor.

[00:09:09] Speaker 02:
That's my issue.

[00:09:09] Speaker 03:
Well, Mr. Vallejo, in 2019, you entered into a loan modification.

[00:09:13] Speaker 02:
Correct, with a different entity.

[00:09:15] Speaker 03:
And at that time, you acknowledge that all prior transfers were valid and that the note that existed and the deed of trust that existed at that time were all valid.

[00:09:24] Speaker 03:
You acknowledge that in the loan modification.

[00:09:27] Speaker 03:
Then you filed the adversary proceeding and a second chapter 13 in 2019, which ultimately resulted in the vexatious litigant order that was entered by the court in 2021.

[00:09:38] Speaker 03:
but they also denied your and dismissed your adversary proceeding at that point in time because again issue preclusion and claim preclusion precluded you from asserting that there was a standing problem or that somebody didn't own this loan and again we're back here that's that's the basis of the

[00:09:57] Speaker 03:
of the underlying argument about standing that you keep raising.

[00:10:00] Speaker 02:
Right, I understand that, Your Honor.

[00:10:01] Speaker 02:
But standing depends on the other party.

[00:10:04] Speaker 02:
Fannie Mae has standing, or it doesn't.

[00:10:06] Speaker 02:
That's why I brought in the fact.

[00:10:07] Speaker 03:
But you just said Fannie Mae isn't a party to this transaction, and it makes no difference if we're on appeal on Fannie Mae.

[00:10:12] Speaker 02:
No, because there's a trust involved now.

[00:10:14] Speaker 03:
I'm sorry, what?

[00:10:15] Speaker 02:
Now there's a trust involved, because Fannie Mae allegedly transferred their interest into a trust.

[00:10:21] Speaker 02:
So which party is the real party in interest, according to federal rules of Civil Procedure 17?

[00:10:27] Speaker 02:
Which party am I really suing here?

[00:10:28] Speaker 02:
Who is involved in this?

[00:10:30] Speaker 02:
That's what I want to do in the Quiet Title action.

[00:10:32] Speaker 02:
And that's the whole issue here, that I was never allowed to, why can I not reopen a bankruptcy to clear up title?

[00:10:39] Speaker 03:
Because as Judge Breaker indicated, the bankruptcy case that you reopened didn't involve title.

[00:10:45] Speaker 03:
It involved a discharge in your Chapter 7 in 2011.

[00:10:48] Speaker 03:
That's the only basis of which you could raise

[00:10:52] Speaker 03:
with regard to the reopened case.

[00:10:54] Speaker 03:
So standing and who owns the loan are irrelevant to the reopening.

[00:10:59] Speaker 03:
You had no basis to be in bankruptcy court.

[00:11:02] Speaker 02:
The loan was discharged, Your Honor.

[00:11:03] Speaker 02:
Whatever it was, was discharged.

[00:11:05] Speaker 02:
The personal liability was.

[00:11:07] Speaker 03:
The loan remained to lean on your property.

[00:11:09] Speaker 03:
That's the law.

[00:11:10] Speaker 02:
Not if I can prove that there's two different parties, Your Honor.

[00:11:13] Speaker 03:
It doesn't matter how many parties you prove.

[00:11:15] Speaker 03:
The lien remains.

[00:11:17] Speaker 02:
In the United States, 10 parties could come and slap a lien on my property.

[00:11:22] Speaker 04:
We don't have that here, sir.

[00:11:23] Speaker 02:
I'm sorry?

[00:11:23] Speaker 02:
We don't have that here.

[00:11:25] Speaker 04:
And you have four minutes.

[00:11:26] Speaker 04:
Yeah.

[00:11:26] Speaker 04:
We have a record that shows that we have one party.

[00:11:31] Speaker 04:
It's gone from one party to another party to another party.

[00:11:34] Speaker 04:
We don't have multiple parties.

[00:11:37] Speaker 02:
I'll reserve my time, Your Honor, for that.

[00:11:38] Speaker 02:
Thank you.

[00:11:48] Speaker 00:
Good morning, and may it please the court, Elizabeth Farrell for Defendant Annapali, Federal National Mortgage Association.

[00:11:57] Speaker 00:
I believe that all of the issues that Mr. Vallejo raised are actually adequately addressed in our brief.

[00:12:03] Speaker 00:
Judge Gahan, you did ask how many times standing had been raised.

[00:12:06] Speaker 00:
At the time of the vexatious litigant order, I believe the court said it had been raised 131 times.

[00:12:13] Speaker 00:
It seems pretty apparent to me that this is an improper attempt to circumvent that vexatious litigant order.

[00:12:21] Speaker 00:
So unless the panel has any questions for me about either the scope of this appeal or the lower court's rulings, I think we'd be happy to submit on the briefs.

[00:12:29] Speaker 04:
I do have a question.

[00:12:32] Speaker 04:
Pellant argues that there is no secured claim because the trust now has this.

[00:12:38] Speaker 04:
Does the trust, is there a record that shows the trust was assigned the note and the deed of trust?

[00:12:46] Speaker 00:
from my my understanding and again Fannie Mae is kind of in a tough position here because we don't have or claim any interest but I think our brief shows a clear chain of title.

[00:12:57] Speaker 00:
I apologize I can try to find the assignment but I do believe that everything I mean the note follows the deed of the deed of trust follows the note so if there's an assignment everything excuse me going into

[00:13:10] Speaker 00:
the trust.

[00:13:11] Speaker 00:
They can't be separated.

[00:13:13] Speaker 00:
Those issues weren't briefed, however.

[00:13:15] Speaker 04:
Well, as Judge Gann said, bankruptcy doesn't wipe out the secured obligation.

[00:13:22] Speaker 04:
And I didn't see anything in the record that says that the deed of trust was reconveyed or canceled in any way.

[00:13:29] Speaker 00:
I'm not aware of that.

[00:13:30] Speaker 00:
As far as I know, the last party to hold to be assigned the deed of trust was the CSMC Trust, which was referenced in the vexatious litigant order, which the court had confirmed had standing, had the right to seek relief, and precluded Mr. Vallejo from challenging the trust standing to foreclose.

[00:13:53] Speaker 00:
Thank you.

[00:14:00] Speaker 05:
Mr. Vallejo, you have little under four minutes.

[00:14:03] Speaker 02:
Okay, thank you.

[00:14:04] Speaker 02:
Just to respond to Your Honor's question, we just have confirmation that we don't know if Fannie Mae owns anything at all or ever did.

[00:14:14] Speaker 02:
We have confirmation that there is a trust out there, which is the first time right now that I have any confirmation of that.

[00:14:20] Speaker 02:
So therefore, Your Honor, all of this

[00:14:23] Speaker 02:
that I've been alleging standing issue is true.

[00:14:26] Speaker 02:
Fannie Mae never had standing.

[00:14:27] Speaker 02:
GMAC did not have standing.

[00:14:29] Speaker 02:
None of these parties have standing except for the CSMC Trust, which I know nothing about, Your Honor.

[00:14:34] Speaker 02:
So it is important to know who it is that I'm paying, who I should have paid my $80,000 to, because now I sent my $80,000 to Utah, which have nothing to do with the CSCM's trust.

[00:14:44] Speaker 02:
That, Your Honor, is the problem.

[00:14:45] Speaker 02:
And that's happening throughout the United States right now.

[00:14:48] Speaker 02:
But I'm not here to represent the United States, just myself, my family.

[00:14:51] Speaker 02:
We want to know who we sent money to, Your Honor.

[00:14:53] Speaker 02:
I've been sending over 24 years money.

[00:14:56] Speaker 02:
We don't know where it's gone.

[00:14:57] Speaker 02:
I don't have an accounting.

[00:14:59] Speaker 02:
My first accounting was wrong.

[00:15:01] Speaker 02:
They started me off already delinquent when I was never delinquent.

[00:15:04] Speaker 02:
For eight years, I was never delinquent.

[00:15:06] Speaker 02:
And then the financial crisis came.

[00:15:08] Speaker 02:
Problems happened.

[00:15:09] Speaker 02:
I had to get a modification.

[00:15:11] Speaker 02:
I did request it.

[00:15:12] Speaker 02:
But that's the wrong party, because CSMC is now the real party in interest, Your Honor.

[00:15:17] Speaker 02:
That's my issue.

[00:15:19] Speaker 02:
What else can I say?

[00:15:21] Speaker 02:
I count on this court granting me the ability in my appeal to continue with the quiet title action in this case or a new case against CSMC, the new party in interest, if that's correct, my request to the court.

[00:15:37] Speaker 02:
Also, I'm very upset with not granting me the preliminary injunction when I needed it.

[00:15:41] Speaker 02:
When you're behind and you can't make the payment, you're on fixed income now, it's very difficult.

[00:15:46] Speaker 02:
So I asked the court,

[00:15:47] Speaker 02:
to please stop it.

[00:15:48] Speaker 02:
They did not.

[00:15:48] Speaker 02:
The court did not.

[00:15:49] Speaker 02:
So I looked for my savings, and that's all I had, and that's what I sent.

[00:15:53] Speaker 02:
And as far as chain of custody of the promissory note, Your Honor, we don't know where the promissory note is.

[00:16:00] Speaker 02:
And I'm sure if I go to MCSMC, they don't have the promissory note, because I'm willing to send a subpoena tomorrow to CSMC to get the copy of the promissory note.

[00:16:09] Speaker 02:
It doesn't exist, Your Honor.

[00:16:10] Speaker 02:
So I'm paying a ghost

[00:16:12] Speaker 02:
an enormous amount of money over the years, 24 years, so it's a lot of money to I don't know who.

[00:16:19] Speaker 02:
Is that correct, Your Honor?

[00:16:20] Speaker 02:
I don't think that's right.

[00:16:21] Speaker 02:
I don't think that's right.

[00:16:23] Speaker 02:
And I think Fannie Mae is also under the conservatorship of the US government, so I don't know if the US government can help me in this case to find out the truth behind it, but that's all I want, Your Honor.

[00:16:35] Speaker 02:
I just want to get to the truth.

[00:16:37] Speaker 02:
for you to grant my appeal in the sense that I can file in this court, in this court's original court, or in a new court, an adversary proceeding.

[00:16:46] Speaker 02:
My vexatious litigant aspect is because I've been alleging the same thing all the time.

[00:16:51] Speaker 02:
They don't have standing, Your Honor.

[00:16:52] Speaker 02:
I'm paying the wrong parties.

[00:16:54] Speaker 02:
Just think you buy a house, you pay the wrong party, and you find out that they're foreclosing on you.

[00:16:58] Speaker 02:
You sent your money to the wrong party.

[00:17:00] Speaker 02:
That's how Americans are today.

[00:17:04] Speaker 02:
Any questions, Your Honor?

[00:17:07] Speaker 02:
No.

[00:17:08] Speaker 02:
Okay.

[00:17:08] Speaker 02:
Thank you so much.

[00:17:08] Speaker 05:
Really appreciate it.

[00:17:09] Speaker 05:
Appreciate it.

[00:17:10] Speaker 05:
The matter will be submitted and we'll attempt to get out a decision as quickly as possible.

[00:17:14] Speaker 05:
With that, that concludes our calendar and we'll be adjourned.

[00:17:17] Speaker 05:
Thank you all.

[00:17:19] Speaker 01:
All rise.

[00:17:19] Speaker 01:
This session is now adjourned.