[00:00:04] Speaker 00: In re Azazia Zarin, Maria Ampara Azazia Zarin, appellant in pro se. Thank you. [00:00:40] Speaker 03: I am here, Your Honor, but there's a problem with the video. I don't know why that happened. [00:00:51] Speaker 05: All right. Do you know if you're able to fix it, or do you want to just go forward with audio? [00:00:57] UNKNOWN: Okay, I got it. [00:01:10] Speaker 05: Okay, there we go. Okay, go ahead and make your appearance, and you've got 15 minutes, okay? [00:01:17] Speaker 03: Okay, can you hear me well? [00:01:18] Speaker 05: Yep. Yes. [00:01:20] Speaker 03: Okay, let me make sure that I can hear you. [00:01:36] UNKNOWN: Okay. [00:01:38] Speaker 03: Your Honor, this is regarding case number 25-1177. I would like to begin by addressing the dismissal order. Do you have any questions for the dismissal order? [00:02:03] Speaker 01: I think our main question is, why are you here since you voluntarily moved to dismiss your case, even though the judge didn't dismiss it on that basis? Since you moved to dismiss, how are you prejudiced or damaged by the dismissal anyway? [00:02:28] Speaker 03: Yes, that's a great question. Thank you, Your Honor. The problem that I would point out is that the court dismissed my case based on the trustee's motion to dismiss instead of my motion to voluntarily dismiss. [00:02:53] Speaker 04: Excuse me, judges. Sorry for interrupting. Ms. Adesarian, please mute the speaker on your laptop. [00:03:02] Speaker 03: If I'm muted, you can't hear me, the other one. Let me see. [00:03:10] Speaker 03: Okay. Is this better? [00:03:13] Speaker 05: I think so. We were getting some feedback. [00:03:16] Speaker 03: Okay. Should I repeat? [00:03:19] Speaker 05: Well, are we getting the same feedback? [00:03:22] Speaker 01: We're asking our technician if he can hear because what we're getting is a repeat from your devices. Yeah. [00:03:31] Speaker 04: Madam, you need to mute the speaker on your laptop itself, not the phone. [00:03:39] Speaker 03: Okay, hang on. It's muted. Hang on. [00:03:43] Speaker 04: Your microphone is muted on the laptop, but you need to mute the speaker. [00:03:47] Speaker 03: Okay, I got it. Is that better? No. [00:03:51] Speaker 02: About the same. [00:03:53] Speaker 03: Hang on. Is that better? [00:03:57] Speaker 03: Is it getting better? [00:04:01] Speaker 05: I think we lost the feedback. Is that right? It's clear. [00:04:04] Speaker 04: Yeah, we lost the feedback, but it's very difficult to hear. If judges are okay with that, we can proceed. [00:04:09] Speaker 05: Okay. [00:04:11] Speaker 05: Well, go ahead and speak up. Let's see how we do. [00:04:14] Speaker 03: So I don't know what to do if you want to be on the phone because the other device is muted. Okay. [00:04:30] Speaker 03: so I don't know why you have an echo. [00:04:35] Speaker 05: Sorry, Judge. No, it's okay. Go ahead. [00:04:40] Speaker 04: Madam, your speakers are on on the laptop. I know your microphone is muted, but the speakers are on. You need to turn the volume down on the speakers on the laptop. Is it better for you? [00:04:50] Speaker 04: Yes. [00:04:52] Speaker 03: Okay, it's not better for me. I can barely hear you. Okay. [00:04:59] Speaker 03: So hang on a second. I'm going to test something. [00:05:08] Speaker 01: No, now we can't hear you at all. [00:05:09] Speaker 03: So we're going to continue on this one. [00:05:17] Speaker 03: Can you hear me now? [00:05:18] Speaker 04: Yes. [00:05:20] Speaker 04: Okay. Yes, we can hear you. [00:05:21] Speaker 03: Can we continue now? [00:05:28] Speaker 01: I'm sorry, can you repeat what you just said? [00:05:30] Speaker 03: Can we continue? [00:05:33] Speaker 01: Yeah, so if you could address the question. We understand that the bankruptcy court dismissed on the basis of the trustee's motion, and you've appealed that decision. My question, again, is why should we be concerned what the basis was when you voluntarily moved to dismiss under 1307B anyway? So what's the difference? Why are you here? Thank you. [00:06:03] Speaker 03: Yes. The difference, Your Honor, between my motion and the Trustee motion is that the voluntary dismissal under Section 1307B carries no findings of that case. It carries no adverse consequences for future filing. It's a statutory right, and it creates a clean record, no refiling restrictions. [00:06:27] Speaker 03: The Trustee's motion is under Section 1307C, and is dismissal for cause. [00:06:37] Speaker 03: It creates a record of cause-based dismissal, follows me into every future proceeding, can be used to support adverse inferences of bad faith, can restrict refiling rights. It carries consequences that I did not earn. [00:06:59] Speaker 03: No bad faith findings existed before I filed, and I would refer to document 66. [00:07:13] Speaker 01: So the injury that you're trying to redress is not present by virtue of the order. It's present by virtue of what you might do in the future that could be negatively impacted if the future court relies upon something this court entered in this proceeding. Is that a fair statement of your position? Yes. [00:07:43] Speaker 01: Okay. I'm not sure we understood other than that you disagree. So maybe you could say it louder and then tell us what that is. [00:08:03] Speaker 05: Ma'am, we're not hearing you very well. If you want to hold the phone closer or something. [00:08:30] Speaker 05: Okay, so... We're still not hearing you terribly well. If you can pull the phone a little closer, maybe that's going to help, okay? That's better. [00:08:39] Speaker 03: Okay, so the difference between my motion and the trustee motion is that my motion is under Section 1307B, which is a voluntary dismissal, and the trustee's motion is under Section 1307C, which is dismissal for cause. [00:09:01] Speaker 03: Under the voluntary dismissal, I have no findings of bad faith. I have no adverse consequences for future filings. I am not planning to file. And I had to file not from anything that I did, but by breach of third party. So this is just a little insight that I want to bring up. [00:09:22] Speaker 05: Can I make a couple of points to you? If you're going to file another bankruptcy case, you're probably going to have to show your good faith and get over bad faith assumptions anyway. So why is this any different? [00:09:36] Speaker 03: It is also refiling rights and consequences that I did not earn. So I did not file a filing for cost. [00:09:52] Speaker 03: I don't think that we... In any case, it is a statutory right, and I think that it should be weighed heavily because I voluntarily dismiss the case. [00:10:06] Speaker 05: Well, it's also true. I mean, you may have a statutory right to dismiss. The bankruptcy court has the judicial power to condition that, right? [00:10:13] Speaker 03: If I am burned? [00:10:16] Speaker 05: No, no, no, no, no. The bankruptcy court has the judicial power to condition your dismissal, including, although it didn't do it here, barring you from future filings, right? [00:10:28] Speaker 03: Yes, I understand. [00:10:29] Speaker 05: Okay, so then Judge Gannon and I are wondering where the harm is. [00:10:34] Speaker 03: The harm is that in the future, the record will say that I was dismissed for a clause, and I did not have a clause to be dismissed. [00:10:46] Speaker 01: The statute, 362C3, talks about a case filed and dismissed within a year. It doesn't specifically say that it was dismissed for cause under the statute, which would create some kind of a problem. It only looks to whether there was a dismissed case within a year of the filing of the subsequent case. [00:11:09] Speaker 01: So, if you file a second case within a year, the fact that it was dismissed under 1307 versus 1307 doesn't come into play. What comes into play is whether or not there's change in your financial circumstances and any reason to believe that the second case, if that's filed, would result in a confirmed plan that would be fully performed by you. That's what the issue is, and good faith, of course, because you have to file in good faith at any time under Chapter 13. [00:11:42] Speaker 01: So I'm not clear what the—I understand what your argument is. I'm just not clear how that is consistent with the statute, 362c3. What I'm looking at is, [00:12:04] Speaker 03: Law versus legal, which is a statutory command that is mandatory and cannot be displayed. [00:12:17] Speaker 03: It says the court had no predicate to bypass my statutory right. [00:12:22] Speaker 03: And no bad state finance existed. [00:12:41] Speaker 03: I will go to point number two. [00:12:46] Speaker 01: All right. [00:12:46] Speaker 03: Because the, I don't know if you have any other questions. I, you know, I am limited to the research that I did to submit the opening brief. I do not have experience in why, you know, my rights should be under the trustee's motion. [00:13:17] Speaker 03: Every research that I've done is that if I voluntarily file before the hearing, then my statutory right is that it has to be under the voluntary dismissal. [00:13:32] Speaker 01: I think we got that point. Go ahead and move to number two, please. Okay. [00:13:43] Speaker 03: I'm sorry, you're going to have to move the phone closer again because we just can't hear you. [00:13:56] Speaker 02: Okay. [00:14:13] Speaker 01: What is point number two? [00:14:16] Speaker 03: Yeah, I'm coming to. I think that it's very important to note that case number, this case, stems from a previous case filed very shortly in a very brief period of time. [00:14:34] Speaker 03: It is a second case. [00:14:39] Speaker 03: The first case is It was also appealed to the BAT, and the BAT case number is 251107. [00:14:52] Speaker 03: So that's a related case that now we have to look at both cases because this case did not need to be filed, were it not for the failures of the first case. The first case had a duration of 61 days. [00:15:15] Speaker 03: It was dismissed effectively. And I raised those points on the bat case, which is the 251107. [00:15:31] Speaker 03: I'm only going to touch briefly on those points. I'm not requesting that you rehear that case here. But it's relevant because the two cases are linked. [00:15:45] Speaker 03: 10 days after the case, the first case was dismissed. This case is the 25-1107. I have to file this current case that we are here for, which is case 25-1177. 10 days. The duration of this case was 91 days. [00:16:14] Speaker 03: The first case was 61 days and the second case was 91 days, which are the early preliminary stages of setting the cases up and organizing. [00:16:30] Speaker 03: So, I want to make sure that I'm on the record saying that the reason for having to file this case, if you read this, relevant and related to the dismissal of the first case. [00:16:48] Speaker 03: The first case was dismissed on a $34 fee that the clerk charged for changing or amending the master list where I amended by removing an agent of the creditor. [00:17:10] Speaker 03: Now, both you, the back panel, and the bankruptcy court did not rule whether the fee was appropriately charged, whether it was valid. It didn't. It bypassed it. [00:17:30] Speaker 03: And so, but I want to point out that this case, and you cannot decide this case, I think, in my opinion from my readings, and I'm very very clear that this case is now so tied into that first case that whatever you decide here it cannot be divorced or it cannot be isolated from the first case. [00:17:57] Speaker 05: Ma'am, you're now over your time and the matter is submitted. Okay? [00:18:04] Speaker 05: Thank you very much. We'll get you a written decision as soon as we can. [00:18:09] Speaker 05: Okay. And with that, I think we've concluded the calendar for today. Yes. We are adjourned? Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. [00:18:17] Speaker 00: I'll rise. The court is now adjourned.