[00:00:00] Speaker 02:
That'll be case number 21, 1934, Barrens and Ventures against Google.

[00:00:08] Speaker 03:
I am ready.

[00:00:09] Speaker 02:
OK, please proceed.

[00:00:12] Speaker 03:
OK, so in the context of the 433 patent, which we've talked about some, this is a patent directed to listener-directed TSM.

[00:00:22] Speaker 03:
It is about formulating a data structure that captures information based on how a user uses TSM, unlike fast forward, to listen to information and use that data to improve or deliver content at a speed based on the feedback that you get from the listener-directed time scale modification.

[00:00:49] Speaker 03:
It is directed to a media work.

[00:00:52] Speaker 03:
And so the first issue on this appeal is media work and the definition of media work.

[00:00:58] Speaker 03:
And it is Verentim's position that media work is limited to audio or audio visual plus any number of other things.

[00:01:08] Speaker 03:
It can have text, it can have images, it can have whatever else it's gonna have, but it must have audio and it should be defined as an audio or audio visual work at a minimum.

[00:01:20] Speaker 03:
The specification, 123 times, says media work, open paren, audio and or audio visual.

[00:01:32] Speaker 03:
So the minimum is audio.

[00:01:34] Speaker 03:
That's because time scale modification is about audio.

[00:01:37] Speaker 03:
And each one of these patterns, the audio is processed.

[00:01:42] Speaker 03:
It is sped up or slowed down with time scale modification techniques.

[00:01:46] Speaker 03:
And then separately, the video is matched up to it.

[00:01:50] Speaker 03:
So in the context of media work.

[00:01:52] Speaker 05:
Mr. Mori, the elephant in the room seems to be the apparent definition for the term media work that's provided in the 433 patent at column 8, beginning at line 20, where the 433 patent states media work, colon.

[00:02:09] Speaker 05:
A media work, MW, may comprise without limitation

[00:02:13] Speaker 05:
one or more of text, pictures, audio, for example, a speech, etc.

[00:02:23] Speaker 05:
And there, this patent here seems to be communicating to me that a media work

[00:02:32] Speaker 05:
doesn't necessarily require audio every single time for a media work to be a media work.

[00:02:37] Speaker 05:
It could be one or more of text, pictures, audio.

[00:02:42] Speaker 05:
So it could just be text alone that could be a media work based on its definition.

[00:02:48] Speaker 05:
What's the alternative way of reading this passage at column A?

[00:02:54] Speaker 03:
Sure, let's start there.

[00:02:56] Speaker 03:
So first, when we look at the definition section in 433-Penn,

[00:03:00] Speaker 03:
It spans nine columns.

[00:03:03] Speaker 03:
And it starts on column five on appendix 87.

[00:03:08] Speaker 03:
And it continues on for nine columns of the specification.

[00:03:11] Speaker 03:
And throughout what's labeled as definitions in the patent, there are references sometimes.

[00:03:16] Speaker 03:
It actually says the present invention.

[00:03:19] Speaker 03:
A lot of times it says, as an example, can comprise so on and so

[00:03:25] Speaker 03:
So in the first instance, I think it is an overly narrow reading of this section of the specification, although it is certainly labeled definitions.

[00:03:35] Speaker 03:
Next, if we actually go to column six, I mean, there are other definitions as well in the patent that define media work differently.

[00:03:51] Speaker 03:
which is, if you turn to column 16 on page appendix 92, it says, at line, it is, line front and center.

[00:04:06] Speaker 04:
But wouldn't you agree that, and this is going back to what Joseph Chan was talking about, the word pictures, for example, a picture does not necessarily contain audio.

[00:04:19] Speaker 04:
Is that correct?

[00:04:21] Speaker 03:
Yes.

[00:04:22] Speaker 03:
for certain, but there's nothing, I mean, this is, the whole patent is about listener-directed timescale modification.

[00:04:28] Speaker 03:
Timescale modification, even if it's speeding up or slowing down, alone, only deals with audio in the entire specific heat.

[00:04:35] Speaker 04:
That may be the case, but you're talking about the definition of media work.

[00:04:40] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:04:41] Speaker 04:
And so let's look at that whole- And would you concede that media work, the definition of media work,

[00:04:47] Speaker 04:
may include a reference such as a picture or a text that does not have audio?

[00:04:54] Speaker 03:
No, I do not agree with that.

[00:04:56] Speaker 04:
I think this is like a one- Would you agree that that's what Appendix 87.5 says?

[00:05:06] Speaker 03:
I believe, so in column eight at lines 20, I agree it says may comprise one or more of text, and text is included in that list.

[00:05:16] Speaker 03:
And as a picture, audio example, so on and so forth.

[00:05:20] Speaker 04:
So it gives an example of a picture.

[00:05:22] Speaker 04:
Let's take a picture.

[00:05:23] Speaker 04:
A picture does not necessarily include audio.

[00:05:27] Speaker 04:
Is that correct?

[00:05:29] Speaker 03:
That is correct.

[00:05:30] Speaker 03:
And it also can't be presented at a presentation rate.

[00:05:32] Speaker 03:
And there's nothing in the specification that teaches anything about speeding up pictures or speeding up text.

[00:05:39] Speaker 03:
It is all about speeding up audio.

[00:05:41] Speaker 05:
There aren't any non-audio embodiments disclosed in the 433 spec?

[00:05:46] Speaker 05:
What about the email example, or the spell check example, or reading grammatically complex sentences example?

[00:05:55] Speaker 05:
None of those have audio, right?

[00:05:58] Speaker 03:
They do not.

[00:05:59] Speaker 03:
And if they're alone, the text-to-speech, in that same paragraph, they have text-to-speech.

[00:06:07] Speaker 03:
So if it's alone, certainly they don't have it.

[00:06:09] Speaker 03:
But in addition, the one that was pointed out, and it was pretty quick, is the text-to-email, text-to-speech.

[00:06:16] Speaker 03:
That paragraph doesn't say media work in it.

[00:06:20] Speaker 03:
But in addition to that, if you look at this definition, it's not just that first line.

[00:06:24] Speaker 03:
If we look at what's here, the definition, if these are definitions, if this whole column is definitions, then we look at column E and we go down to the bottom of that definition and it says, in the simplest case, line 67 and 68, in the simplest case,

[00:06:42] Speaker 03:
Media work comprises audio and or video.

[00:06:47] Speaker 03:
That is the simplest case of a media work.

[00:06:52] Speaker 03:
So the first line says and or text.

[00:06:56] Speaker 03:
Text is often included within a media work.

[00:06:58] Speaker 03:
It's a comprising thing.

[00:07:00] Speaker 03:
I think saying and or is probably was not the best phrasing there.

[00:07:06] Speaker 03:
But it goes on immediately thereafter to give three examples of what it means by media work.

[00:07:12] Speaker 03:
And it says, you know, videotape, instructional videotape, audiovisual work, so on and so forth.

[00:07:22] Speaker 03:
And everything else in this entire definition refers to something that has audio.

[00:07:29] Speaker 03:
And even all of the things that are including in here, like the CSA data structure, the PRI, the Media Work Content CD, all of these relate to, this is information that is collected

[00:07:44] Speaker 03:
up or slowing down audio if we accept that general definition.

[00:07:48] Speaker 03:
So as you go through all these other terms in the context of Column E, the other terms all relate to information that is captured when somebody is speeding up or slowing down audio.

[00:08:02] Speaker 03:
And thus, when you look at this and you get down to the bottom of it, and so it's not just that initial thing, and I agree that and or one or more is not the best phrasing,

[00:08:14] Speaker 03:
But when you go through this entire section in context, and when you look at an amplitude presentation rate associated data structure, and you look at the specification, you go to the definition of that.

[00:08:28] Speaker 03:
It has to do with they're measuring the amplitude of the presentation rate for the audio, and so on.

[00:08:36] Speaker 03:
And then you get down to the bottom of this paragraph, and it says, in the simplest case, media work comprises audio and or video.

[00:08:44] Speaker 03:
which is consistent with the 123 other times it appears on the specification with the parenthetical after it.

[00:08:54] Speaker 03:
And even just the entire purpose of the invention is frustrated if you're just talking about text, because it is about collecting data based on comprehension, based on speeding up and slowing down audio.

[00:09:14] Speaker 03:
Presentation rate, as was pointed out in the last argument, is about speeding up and slowing down.

[00:09:21] Speaker 03:
And so in this context, it just makes no sense.

[00:09:25] Speaker 03:
I mean, sure, it was there.

[00:09:26] Speaker 03:
There's one and or in the specification.

[00:09:29] Speaker 03:
I cannot dispute that.

[00:09:30] Speaker 03:
It's there.

[00:09:31] Speaker 03:
But in the context of the specification overall, and in the context of this job of the court to interpret this patent as a matter of law based on the entirety of the specification,

[00:09:43] Speaker 03:
It is directed to what the court is leaning towards saying is speeding up or slowing down audio.

[00:09:50] Speaker 03:
And that is the entirety of the specification.

[00:09:55] Speaker 03:
And in the context of that definition, it incorporates all of these other concepts that relate to speeding up or slowing down audio, not text, not a picture.

[00:10:06] Speaker 02:
Next picture.

[00:10:06] Speaker 02:
Is there any attempt to amend the claims before the PJAB?

[00:10:15] Speaker 03:
We did not attempt to amend the claims before the PTAB.

[00:10:19] Speaker 03:
But I believe that this one was near the end of it while we were in the proceedings.

[00:10:28] Speaker 03:
And we did not do that.

[00:10:30] Speaker 03:
It might have even been before the whole amendment procedure.

[00:10:33] Speaker 03:
We might have argued this.

[00:10:34] Speaker 03:
It was quite some time ago before the amendment procedure was even something that was there.

[00:10:38] Speaker 03:
But we did not.

[00:10:42] Speaker 03:
I see that I'm counting up, and so I will reserve whatever time I have for the month.

[00:10:47] Speaker 02:
Well, yes, we'll save you rebuttal time.

[00:10:49] Speaker 02:
Let's hear from the other side.

[00:10:52] Speaker 02:
Any counsel?

[00:10:53] Speaker 00:
Good morning, Your Honor.

[00:10:54] Speaker 00:
May it please the court?

[00:10:55] Speaker 00:
Wrenton's remaining claim construction dispute with respect to the 433 patent is media work, so I'll focus my argument on that issue.

[00:11:02] Speaker 00:
Of course, if the court has any questions on the factual issues, I'm happy to address those.

[00:11:07] Speaker 00:
But we believe that substantial evidence more than supports the board's decision with respect to the factual issues.

[00:11:12] Speaker 00:
Turning to media work, the definition here is dispositive in column 8 that we were talking about, that the court was talking about with counsel for random.

[00:11:24] Speaker 00:
It could not be clearer.

[00:11:25] Speaker 00:
It says a media work may comprise without limitation one or more of text pictures.

[00:11:31] Speaker 00:
So it could not be clearer, and as this court knows under Phillips, when an inventor provides a definition that lexicography governs.

[00:11:40] Speaker 00:
Judge Chen, you're right.

[00:11:42] Speaker 00:
There are other examples.

[00:11:43] Speaker 00:
They ignore the example in column 54 to 55.

[00:11:48] Speaker 00:
And they again, today said, well, that talks about using text to speech.

[00:11:53] Speaker 00:
That's not the case.

[00:11:54] Speaker 00:
If you actually look at, and that's an appendix 111, column 54 to 55, it actually does talk about text to a screen.

[00:12:02] Speaker 00:
And then what's more is they said, well, that passage doesn't refer to media work.

[00:12:06] Speaker 00:
It does refer to MWCD, which is media work content data.

[00:12:10] Speaker 00:
And it refers to other data structures that all refer to media work.

[00:12:14] Speaker 00:
And that's an appendix 87 to 88.

[00:12:17] Speaker 00:
And again, in terms of other examples, if you look at Appendix 89, definition of media work communication technology.

[00:12:24] Speaker 00:
If you look at that definition, that supports that media work can just be text.

[00:12:29] Speaker 00:
And then, Judge Chen, I believe this is perhaps what you're referring to.

[00:12:31] Speaker 00:
It's at Appendix 110.

[00:12:32] Speaker 00:
column 52, line 20 to 27.

[00:12:36] Speaker 00:
It says, one should appreciate that although the preceding description was given with an example of spoken sentences, the inventive technique is not thusly limited and applications in which text of sentences appear on a screen would be part of the invention.

[00:12:53] Speaker 00:
And it goes on and says, in such embodiments, the PR, presentation rate, can be controlled to provide a uniform scrolling or cursor advance through written text based on the audience reading ability.

[00:13:05] Speaker 00:
We think that shows an example of text and how the presentation rate concept plays with text.

[00:13:13] Speaker 00:
So media work here, their definition does control.

[00:13:15] Speaker 00:
In fact, if you look at the expert, he agreed, he had to agree, at Appendix 1795,

[00:13:22] Speaker 00:
page 15, 8-25, he asked him, well, doesn't this sentence in the patent show that media work can be just text?

[00:13:31] Speaker 00:
And he said, yes, it is.

[00:13:33] Speaker 00:
So simply put, they cannot ignore the clear definition in the spec.

[00:13:38] Speaker 00:
Judge Newman, you're right.

[00:13:40] Speaker 00:
They could have amended the claims.

[00:13:41] Speaker 00:
Actually, they couldn't have, because the patents expired.

[00:13:43] Speaker 00:
But what I'll do, I'll point out, is that there are other patents in this family that refer to audiovisual concepts.

[00:13:51] Speaker 00:
And they claim those.

[00:13:52] Speaker 00:
But here, they chose to use the word media work.

[00:13:55] Speaker 00:
And unfortunately, they're stuck with the definition they gave in the specification.

[00:13:59] Speaker 00:
Unless the court has any other questions, I'm happy to give the court its time back.

[00:14:07] Speaker 02:
Any more questions?

[00:14:07] Speaker 02:
OK.

[00:14:07] Speaker 02:
Thank you.

[00:14:13] Speaker 03:
If we go back to Appendix 110, which was just pointed out, Column 52, talking about the reading levels.

[00:14:23] Speaker 03:
And I want to direct the court to what was just read.

[00:14:27] Speaker 03:
For example, sentences with higher reading levels will be presented more slowly than sentences with reading levels.

[00:14:33] Speaker 03:
Such an apparatus would enable listeners listening to the media work at an increased PR

[00:14:40] Speaker 03:
but would reduce the PR during complex sentences or sentences at higher reading levels and eliminate the cumbersome rewind replay from the higher intervals.

[00:14:52] Speaker 03:
So it's talking about, sure, there's also sentences on the screen, but they're being read.

[00:14:59] Speaker 03:
And then it would go to the other example where Mr. Modi just pointed out Appendix 111.

[00:15:06] Speaker 03:
And he said, sure, media work

[00:15:09] Speaker 03:
The MediaWorks CD is in there.

[00:15:11] Speaker 03:
MWCD, he pointed to that.

[00:15:13] Speaker 03:
And let's read with accents.

[00:15:15] Speaker 03:
This is at column 54, line 55.

[00:15:18] Speaker 03:
That is, the analysis of the MWCD of the voicemail messages is equivalent to an analysis of email messages.

[00:15:30] Speaker 03:
So it's talking about, when it says MWCD, it's talking about voicemail messages.

[00:15:36] Speaker 03:
It says that elsewhere in the specification.

[00:15:38] Speaker 03:
We go over to appendix 110.

[00:15:42] Speaker 03:
Again, this is column 52, line 57.

[00:15:54] Speaker 03:
For the specific case of voicemail message, a first pass is made through the voicemail message to create media work content data.

[00:16:00] Speaker 03:
To do this, so on and so forth.

[00:16:02] Speaker 03:
So it's all working on audio first, including the reading level, including the text examples that we've just looked at.

[00:16:15] Speaker 03:
But in addition to that, one other thing that I wanted to point out in this last second here, if we go back to the definition in column eight, and we look at each one of these

[00:16:31] Speaker 03:
the things that are here, like I just pointed out, MWCD.

[00:16:37] Speaker 03:
It's defined elsewhere, and it relates to audio.

[00:16:40] Speaker 03:
There is nothing in column eight, in this definition, all of these data structures that are defined in this column, all relate to only examples where there's audio, and the column concludes with, in the simplest case, media work comprises audio and or audiovisual, which dovetails with the 123 other times

[00:17:00] Speaker 03:
in the specification that it says.

[00:17:02] Speaker 02:
Any more questions on this case?

[00:17:08] Speaker 05:
Is there an email message embodiment in the bottom paragraph of column 54?

[00:17:12] Speaker 03:
In the full paragraph or the?

[00:17:17] Speaker 05:
Yeah, that bottom paragraph carrying over to column 55.

[00:17:23] Speaker 05:
In an alternative of the seventh aspect of the present invention, text in electronic documents, for example, email messages is processed.

[00:17:34] Speaker 05:
That is, analysis of the media work content data, MWCD, of voicemail messages is equivalent to analysis of text in email messages.

[00:17:45] Speaker 05:
The email messages are then presented to an audience member in an order that is determined in accordance with the audience member's specification.

[00:17:53] Speaker 03:
In the further aspect of this environment, using text-to-speech and our text-to-screen, the email messages themselves can be presented at specified rates.

[00:18:01] Speaker 03:
And this is the paragraph that doesn't specifically say media work.

[00:18:07] Speaker 03:
But in addition to that, I think in context, this is talking about it is never audio.

[00:18:14] Speaker 03:
I mean, it's never text alone.

[00:18:16] Speaker 03:
It certainly describes email, but it is never text alone.

[00:18:22] Speaker 03:
Because they're processed using COA data structures and the manner described above with respect to voicemail messages, et cetera.

[00:18:28] Speaker 03:
And so they're processed into a data structure that is an audio data structure.

[00:18:32] Speaker 03:
So if we go and look at the COA data structure, it's still talking about processing email into an audio form.

[00:18:40] Speaker 03:
And sure, the email can be displayed on the screen as well, but it is also being processed in an audio form.

[00:18:48] Speaker 02:
Any more questions on this case?

[00:18:50] Speaker 02:
Okay.

[00:18:51] Speaker 02:
Thank you.

[00:18:52] Speaker 02:
This case is taken under submission.