[00:00:00] Speaker 04:
We will begin with number 241796, Dometic Corp versus ITC.

[00:00:09] Speaker 04:
Mr. Howe.

[00:00:11] Speaker 00:
Good morning, Your Honors.

[00:00:13] Speaker 00:
Stephen Howe on behalf of Appellants.

[00:00:16] Speaker 00:
May it please the court, we're here today because of two erroneous claim construction decisions in an ITC investigation between my clients, Dometic, the inventors and manufacturers of revolutionary nautical air conditioning units, and their former distributors, who have been infringing the claims of the 351 patent by importing copies of the embodiments of that invention.

[00:00:40] Speaker 00:
As it relates to the first claim construction decision,

[00:00:42] Speaker 00:
The commission found that Dometic's former product, the Vector Compact, anticipated claims 1, 2, 4, 5, and 7, based on an erroneous construction of the term guiding cover.

[00:00:55] Speaker 00:
The commission purports to have adopted Dometic's proposed construction of that term, but it, in fact, did not.

[00:01:01] Speaker 00:
And today's decision is thus to be rendered de novo.

[00:01:04] Speaker 00:
Specifically, Dometic proposed that the term guiding cover, consistent with its use in the claims and specification, is a part of the assembly.

[00:01:13] Speaker 00:
that is a fan plate, which is a cover-like element that includes a flat section with a circular opening for directing the air to the adjacent blower and has a cylindrical section extending from the opening.

[00:01:25] Speaker 04:
I know that you are making the argument that the guiding cover can't be part of the main body.

[00:01:35] Speaker 04:
Is there anything else to this point for you, like fan-like or cover-like or whatever those terms are?

[00:01:42] Speaker 00:
We aren't disputing that the commission found a flat section or a hole or a protrusion.

[00:01:50] Speaker 00:
The crux of our argument here is that what the commission found was on the main body rather than on the assembly.

[00:01:59] Speaker 04:
And that argument gets off the ground for you by noting that the claim language says a main body and a blower and an assembly

[00:02:07] Speaker 04:
And that suggests that the assembly can't be part of the main body, right?

[00:02:12] Speaker 04:
That's correct.

[00:02:13] Speaker 04:
So there's some kind of, let's call it a presumption maybe to that effect.

[00:02:18] Speaker 04:
It doesn't feel to me like it's a very strong presumption.

[00:02:22] Speaker 04:
And if it's not a very strong one, then the pieces of the rest of the intrinsic evidence work rather strongly against you, right?

[00:02:33] Speaker 04:
The abstract in particular speaks of this as being part of the main body, or have I misremembered?

[00:02:41] Speaker 00:
Well, the commission relies on one errant statement from the abstract.

[00:02:45] Speaker 00:
You're correct.

[00:02:46] Speaker 04:
Let's take the commission out of it.

[00:02:48] Speaker 04:
If you say this is de novo, let's just talk about the sources of plant construction.

[00:02:53] Speaker 00:
So the one statement in the abstract that mentions the air conditioning unit includes a main body, including an assembly.

[00:03:02] Speaker 00:
That statement conflicts with the consistent and repeated statements elsewhere in the patent, including the specification and, most importantly, the claims that consistently describe the main body and the guiding cover as separate elements.

[00:03:16] Speaker 05:
How many places in the spec do you cite for that?

[00:03:21] Speaker 05:
I only found one.

[00:03:23] Speaker 00:
Yes, so the specification describes an APPX 327 at 135 to 37.

[00:03:34] Speaker 00:
What are we?

[00:03:39] Speaker 04:
Column and line number.

[00:03:40] Speaker 00:
Column 1, lines 35 to 37.

[00:03:42] Speaker 00:
Air conditioning system for nautical vehicle includes a main body, a blower, and an assembly.

[00:03:50] Speaker 00:
Figure 23.

[00:03:51] Speaker 00:
35?

[00:03:54] Speaker 00:
We're back at column one.

[00:03:55] Speaker 00:
What lines?

[00:03:56] Speaker 00:
Oh, apologies.

[00:03:57] Speaker 00:
Column one, lines 35.

[00:03:59] Speaker 05:
We're in the 351, Pat?

[00:04:01] Speaker 05:
Yes.

[00:04:02] Speaker 05:
I'm looking at column one.

[00:04:06] Speaker 00:
Column one, lines 35 to 37.

[00:04:08] Speaker 00:
Yes.

[00:04:10] Speaker 00:
And it states, in accordance with one aspect of the present invention, an air conditioning system for a nautical vehicle includes a main body, a blower, and an assembly, which is different than the phrasing of the abstract.

[00:04:23] Speaker 00:
And as this court has noted, the abstract is intended to permit a quick understanding of the gist of the invention and not to override the body of the specifications or broaden the claims.

[00:04:37] Speaker 00:
This is confirmed in Quectel Wireless for Conn and July Phillips, moreover confirmed by 37 CFR 1.72.

[00:04:48] Speaker 00:
Elsewhere in the specification,

[00:04:52] Speaker 00:
APPX 329 column 5, lines 40 to 41, notes that figure 23 is an isolated view of the guiding cover of the assembly, showing it on its own, rather than as the rest of the air conditioning unit or the main body.

[00:05:11] Speaker 05:
I don't know, isn't it?

[00:05:20] Speaker 05:
Well, function is bad, isn't it?

[00:05:22] Speaker 05:
Everything above the cover is part of the main body.

[00:05:28] Speaker 00:
Yes.

[00:05:28] Speaker 05:
So that would include the assembly.

[00:05:35] Speaker ?:
Apologies.

[00:05:37] Speaker 00:
I believe Your Honor is referring to column 11, lines 25 to 26.

[00:05:40] Speaker 05:
For me, what happened was that it looked to me like the claim itself identifies the three separate elements.

[00:05:48] Speaker 05:
And according to Google case, that creates a presumption.

[00:05:53] Speaker 05:
So the question then is the presumption overcome.

[00:05:55] Speaker 05:
And we have two or three cases where they say it overcomes.

[00:05:59] Speaker 05:
And it looked to me here like there is some evidence in the spec that points one way, and there's some that points the other way.

[00:06:05] Speaker 05:
So there's some evidence suggesting that they're separate.

[00:06:08] Speaker 05:
There's some evidence suggesting that they don't have to be separate.

[00:06:13] Speaker 05:
Then to me, the question was, how do you decide?

[00:06:17] Speaker 05:
What's this test?

[00:06:19] Speaker 05:
If the presumption has any weight at all, which it may not.

[00:06:24] Speaker 00:
One way of analyzing it, per Bechtin and per Google, is whether the specification consistently describes the elements as separate.

[00:06:35] Speaker 00:
And here, Your Honor pointed to the statement, the main body comprises the drain pan 100 and what is mounted above it.

[00:06:42] Speaker 00:
But the patent describes any manner of connections of these various elements.

[00:06:49] Speaker 00:
And in some manner, the blower itself is connected through the assembly to the main body.

[00:06:55] Speaker 00:
It does not become subsumed into the definition of main body just because it is higher in space and in some way tangentially connected to the main body.

[00:07:06] Speaker 04:
Can I ask you this question?

[00:07:08] Speaker 04:
And I'm going to be imprecise, because the notion, which seems to me incredibly important in the way courts actually do claim construction, is somewhat imprecise.

[00:07:18] Speaker 04:
Explain what it is about the idea of the invention that would support your insistence that this

[00:07:26] Speaker 04:
collar-like thing, the guiding cover, can't be part of the main body in the sense that

[00:07:38] Speaker 04:
an exterior surface of the main body can function that way.

[00:07:43] Speaker 04:
What's the idea behind, oh, this was a really cool advance?

[00:07:49] Speaker 00:
Yes.

[00:07:50] Speaker 00:
I believe as Mr. Pabbitts testified, the vector compact, the way that the blower pulled down on the cylindrical protrusion, which was just a

[00:08:00] Speaker 00:
a cylindrical protrusion sticking out the side of the main body.

[00:08:03] Speaker 00:
It did not allow for full or proper or easy rotation.

[00:08:07] Speaker 00:
And by having this as its singular unit that hangs off the side, the force of the blower pulling down on it doesn't just depress the cylindrical protrusion.

[00:08:17] Speaker 00:
It allows for consistent and clean rotation.

[00:08:21] Speaker 00:
And that is part of what allows for the 270 degree rotation as claimed in claim 18.

[00:08:26] Speaker 00:
Moreover, what I think is an equally important point is this is how the patentee chose to limit their invention.

[00:08:35] Speaker 00:
If they chose to claim it more broadly, they could have.

[00:08:38] Speaker 00:
But they chose to claim it in this limited manner.

[00:08:41] Speaker 00:
And they should be afforded the way they chose to claim the invention.

[00:08:48] Speaker 00:
Moving on to claims 18 to 22, unless Your Honors would like to further discuss guide and cover.

[00:08:54] Speaker 00:
The question at hand for the second claim construction decision is whether in addition to rotation of the blower via the claimed assembly, as in Claim 1, Claim 18 also requires a second axis, second structure, and second manner of rotating the blower separate from the assembly itself.

[00:09:12] Speaker 00:
The commission found that it does, largely dividing the claim into two portions.

[00:09:18] Speaker 00:
First, the commission focused on the portion from lines 10 through 20 on APPX 333 and found that it relates to the rotation of the blower by way of and a result of the assembly and its guiding cover.

[00:09:32] Speaker 00:
There's no dispute about those lines.

[00:09:35] Speaker 00:
Where there is a dispute is with respect to line 7 through 10, beginning with the phrase, the blower being rotatable about a first axis.

[00:09:45] Speaker 00:
According to the commission, line 7 to 10 relate to the rotation of the blower during installation through rivets between the blower itself and the duct element, and that this portion of the claim has nothing to do with rotation afforded by the claimed assembly.

[00:10:00] Speaker 00:
The prosecution history, dependent claims, and specification all confirm, however, that claim 18 only requires one structure for and one manner of rotating the blower, and that's the assembly.

[00:10:14] Speaker 00:
First, during prosecution, the claim that became claim 18 was originally written without the language of lines 10 to 20.

[00:10:22] Speaker 00:
Instead, the only rotation described in that claim was that discussed of contested lines

[00:10:30] Speaker 00:
seven to 10 that the commission asserts is unrelated to the assembly.

[00:10:35] Speaker 00:
After claim one was amended to describe in detail the elements of the claimed assembly, such as the guiding cover, claim 18 was amended to incorporate almost the exact same assembly related language as claim one, yet it still retained the bulk of its original language.

[00:10:50] Speaker 00:
This resulted in the inclusion of the phrase second axis because claim one referred to the assembly driven rotation as such.

[00:10:57] Speaker 01:
Do I remember

[00:10:59] Speaker 01:
correctly that claim 18 differs from claim one with respect to the rotate about an access limitations in that claim one is talking about the fan blades being something that is rotated about an axis.

[00:11:13] Speaker 00:
Yes, that's correct.

[00:11:14] Speaker 00:
In claim one, the first axis is the rotation of the fan blades.

[00:11:20] Speaker 01:
And that's also what's disclosed in the specification, right?

[00:11:24] Speaker 00:
That's correct.

[00:11:25] Speaker 00:
That's disclosed in figure 30.

[00:11:26] Speaker 01:
Is there anything in the specification that talks about

[00:11:29] Speaker 01:
rotating the elements that are in claim 18 about a first axis and a second axis expressly?

[00:11:36] Speaker 00:
No.

[00:11:37] Speaker 00:
Column 12, which you'll likely hear in a minute, refers to a preferred installation orientation.

[00:11:44] Speaker 00:
But it never discusses an axis other than the assembly axis.

[00:11:48] Speaker 00:
The only times first or second axis, those phrases are used in the specification, is with respect to rotation by the assembly.

[00:11:57] Speaker 00:
and rotation of the fan blades.

[00:11:59] Speaker 00:
There's no mention of a third axis.

[00:12:01] Speaker 00:
It does use the phrase an axis at times, but when you dig into the specifics of that, it's always referring to the assembly driven rotation or the fan blades.

[00:12:11] Speaker 05:
But the first axis in claim one is different from the first axis in claim 18.

[00:12:18] Speaker 00:
That's correct.

[00:12:19] Speaker 00:
Claim 1 actually discusses two distinct structures, fan blade axis and assembly axis.

[00:12:25] Speaker 00:
Claim 18 is discussing the same manner of rotation from different perspectives.

[00:12:30] Speaker 00:
And while it might seem a little confusing on its face there, the prosecution history does confirm this, in fact.

[00:12:38] Speaker 00:
As originally written, Claim 18's only rotation language was that of disputed lines 7 through 10.

[00:12:48] Speaker 05:
If the commission's construction... Do these things come in a box that have to be assembled?

[00:12:55] Speaker 05:
The blower... I mean, when you buy one of these things, either the blower is going to be facing to the left or the right, correct?

[00:13:05] Speaker 00:
When you buy the DI products?

[00:13:07] Speaker 05:
My point is, you look at the pictures and they say that either the blower, which will be connected to the duct, is either to the left or to the right.

[00:13:17] Speaker 00:
Yes, with the DI products and the infringing products, it can be rotated around to both lateral sides.

[00:13:23] Speaker 05:
At some point in the beginning, you're putting the thing together.

[00:13:26] Speaker 05:
It's going to be pointed to the left or the right.

[00:13:29] Speaker 05:
And you fix it with bolts, right?

[00:13:31] Speaker 00:
Yes, the one way that the DI products work is the blower is mounted to the duct element with bolts, but that is not what permits the rotation.

[00:13:42] Speaker 00:
The rotation is slidingly adjustable about the guiding cover, and it can rotate with respect to the main body.

[00:13:49] Speaker 00:
So yes, it could show up aimed one way or the other way, but that is all permitted by the assembly, not this idea

[00:13:57] Speaker 05:
It looked to me like that first access had to do with the fixing so that the borrower is going to be either to the left or to the right.

[00:14:06] Speaker 05:
So you're either moving it either to the left or to the right.

[00:14:10] Speaker 00:
Well, that is what the commission found.

[00:14:13] Speaker 00:
But we would dispute that.

[00:14:14] Speaker 00:
The claim language seems to suggest that's what it is.

[00:14:17] Speaker 00:
If you look at dependent claim 22, which notes that

[00:14:24] Speaker 00:
It includes a clamp element for maintaining the blower oriented with respect to the main body wherein only loosening the clamp.

[00:14:33] Speaker 00:
The commission has admitted that that relates to the assembly rotation.

[00:14:39] Speaker 00:
But that claim was pending at the time that claim 18 only contained its original language, which is the disputed language of claims

[00:14:48] Speaker 00:
which is the disputed language of line 7 to 10, demonstrating that the original language must have related to the assembly rotation itself.

[00:14:57] Speaker 00:
There's no disclosure of rotating or a third axis of this rotating.

[00:15:04] Speaker 04:
You have exhausted all your time and therefore used up your time.

[00:15:08] Speaker 04:
We'll give you two minutes back.

[00:15:10] Speaker 00:
Thank you.

[00:15:11] Speaker 00:
I'd like to save that for rebuttal.

[00:15:16] Speaker 00:
Thank you, Your Honors.

[00:15:25] Speaker 02:
May it please the court, I'm Nam Ok-Kim for the Commission.

[00:15:29] Speaker 02:
I'd like to pick up on the discussion regarding the first and second access limitations in claim 18.

[00:15:35] Speaker 02:
So, Dometic's main problem here is that its construction would read out the first access limitation out of the claim.

[00:15:43] Speaker 02:
and render it meaningless, because in Dometic's view, only the second access rotation is required to satisfy the claim's two different rotations.

[00:15:53] Speaker 02:
And not only that, the prosecution history is very helpful here, because Dometic is trying to recapture the claim's scope that was narrowed during prosecution to require the two different rotations in order to overcome the prior art.

[00:16:10] Speaker 02:
Claim 18

[00:16:12] Speaker 05:
What's the purpose of the first axis rotation?

[00:16:17] Speaker 05:
Can you explain to us how this thing works?

[00:16:20] Speaker 02:
Yes.

[00:16:20] Speaker 02:
So the commission's brief on page 41 best explains the two rotations, Your Honor.

[00:16:28] Speaker 02:
So on that page 41 at the bottom right, you can see modified figure 30B-2.

[00:16:36] Speaker 02:
which has been modified according to figure 22, which is also shown in that same page 41.

[00:16:43] Speaker 05:
I had trouble understanding that in English language.

[00:16:47] Speaker 05:
Can you explain in English language how the first access works?

[00:16:51] Speaker 02:
Yeah, absolutely.

[00:16:52] Speaker 02:
So in that figure, you see a blower in green.

[00:16:56] Speaker 04:
Blower in green.

[00:16:57] Speaker 04:
Are we looking at the figure 22 at the top of the page?

[00:16:59] Speaker 02:
No, Your Honor.

[00:17:00] Speaker 02:
Figure 30B-2, that's been modified on the bottom right.

[00:17:04] Speaker 02:
So you see the blower in green duct element in yellow and the guiding cover there.

[00:17:10] Speaker 02:
So the first axis rotation is represented by that green circle.

[00:17:15] Speaker 02:
And where the blower rotates around, there's the green circle.

[00:17:22] Speaker 02:
So the claim language for that says, quote, the blower being rotatable about a first axis.

[00:17:31] Speaker 02:
And the second axis rotation is represented by the yellow circle.

[00:17:36] Speaker 02:
And the claim language there says, quote, the duct element being rotated.

[00:17:42] Speaker 05:
I understand those two, but I don't understand functionally how the blower is working.

[00:17:48] Speaker 05:
How do you achieve the first axis with the actual structure with the machine?

[00:17:54] Speaker 02:
So the patent, for example, in column.

[00:17:58] Speaker 05:
Can you answer that?

[00:17:59] Speaker 05:
You understand what I'm saying?

[00:18:02] Speaker 02:
Yes, I do.

[00:18:03] Speaker 02:
You are asking for the structure.

[00:18:05] Speaker 05:
So we have this machine, right?

[00:18:06] Speaker 05:
And I understand how the blower and the little green ring, which is the thing that they screw on, right?

[00:18:12] Speaker 05:
It's the clamp, right?

[00:18:15] Speaker 02:
The clamp is for the duct element rotation on the guiding cover for the second axis, Your Honor.

[00:18:21] Speaker 05:
The green thing is the clamp.

[00:18:24] Speaker 05:
No.

[00:18:25] Speaker 05:
The circle?

[00:18:26] Speaker 02:
The duct element, the yellow thing, is how the clamp is used.

[00:18:31] Speaker 05:
The duct element is yes, but what is the ring circle?

[00:18:36] Speaker 05:
What structure is that?

[00:18:37] Speaker 04:
So the specification discloses... That's an illustration of the rotation, but it essentially matches 186 up the top of the page.

[00:18:46] Speaker 02:
Correct, Your Honor.

[00:18:47] Speaker 04:
Which is the clamp.

[00:18:50] Speaker 02:
So the clamp is actually for the duct element and the specification for the blower's rotation about the duct element.

[00:18:58] Speaker 02:
Specification disclosions.

[00:18:59] Speaker 05:
How is the blower connected to the duct element?

[00:19:02] Speaker 02:
Specification says apertures to 10 for coupling the blower to the duct element.

[00:19:10] Speaker 02:
The apertures are not shown in that picture.

[00:19:11] Speaker 05:
Is there a reason why you can't explain to me in the English language how it works?

[00:19:15] Speaker 02:
No.

[00:19:17] Speaker 02:
You can see, for example, on figure 24 there are these apertures with holes.

[00:19:24] Speaker 02:
So that's how you attach.

[00:19:27] Speaker 01:
In what way is it rotating?

[00:19:29] Speaker 01:
I think that's the question.

[00:19:31] Speaker 01:
Tell us how the blower is rotating and also how the duct element is rotating.

[00:19:37] Speaker 02:
Yes, Your Honor.

[00:19:37] Speaker 02:
So one example way to rotate the blower around the duct element, the first axis rotation, is using the apertures, right?

[00:19:47] Speaker 02:
The patent says the blower is fastened to the duct element, and you can adjust the orientation in which the blower is fastened to the duct element.

[00:19:58] Speaker 05:
And the claim talks about it being fixed either in one direction or another, correct?

[00:20:03] Speaker 02:
The claim requires that the blower be rotated.

[00:20:08] Speaker 02:
Correct, Your Honor.

[00:20:09] Speaker 02:
It has to rotate to point to these two different directions.

[00:20:16] Speaker 04:
So I'm going to test an image to see if this fits.

[00:20:24] Speaker 04:
Forget about blowers.

[00:20:25] Speaker 04:
Think about a slurpee cup.

[00:20:29] Speaker 04:
And there's a lid that goes on the slurpee cup.

[00:20:33] Speaker 04:
And there is a small opening at the top of the lid where your mouth is going to go.

[00:20:39] Speaker 04:
And consider that opening itself having a little rotatable spigot.

[00:20:47] Speaker 04:
So the spigot there is the blower, which can change in direction around the little opening.

[00:20:53] Speaker 04:
And the whole thing, the whole lid can rotate around the cup.

[00:20:58] Speaker 04:
That's the assembly going around

[00:21:02] Speaker 04:
the guidance cover.

[00:21:03] Speaker 02:
Yes, that's a perfect example.

[00:21:05] Speaker 04:
And as this, I don't know, I don't know what that, the 30B figure, the yellow figure, shows the opening not being centered at the top of

[00:21:21] Speaker 04:
the lid, but off to one side as one might expect.

[00:21:25] Speaker 04:
And so you can get kind of two degrees of freedom about the ultimate direction.

[00:21:32] Speaker 02:
Is that what's going on here?

[00:21:34] Speaker 02:
Yes, absolutely, Your Honor.

[00:21:35] Speaker 02:
That's exactly correct.

[00:21:36] Speaker 05:
And how do you achieve this?

[00:21:38] Speaker 05:
I mean, assume I have this physical device and the device is with me and the blower outlet is pointed sort of down here.

[00:21:47] Speaker 05:
How do I achieve the first axis rotation?

[00:21:51] Speaker 02:
Do I put my hand on the blower and pull it?

[00:21:54] Speaker 02:
No, you have to unbolt.

[00:21:57] Speaker 05:
You have to unbolt the clamp.

[00:21:59] Speaker 02:
Not the clamp, but how the blower is bolted to the duct element.

[00:22:03] Speaker 02:
You unbolt it.

[00:22:05] Speaker 05:
You have to take it apart.

[00:22:07] Speaker 02:
That's one exemplary means according to the patent.

[00:22:10] Speaker 04:
To achieve the first... I'm sorry, why not the clamp?

[00:22:14] Speaker 04:
Figure 22 shows the clamp being the connector between the duct element and the blower.

[00:22:20] Speaker 04:
So why can't you just loosen the clamp and rotate the blower?

[00:22:23] Speaker 02:
That's for the second axis rotation, at least based on figure 22, Your Honor.

[00:22:28] Speaker 02:
Isn't that what we're talking about?

[00:22:29] Speaker 05:
No, I'm still trying to talk about how this thing works for the first axis.

[00:22:35] Speaker 05:
I understand how, once you release the clamp, the thing is fixed in such a way that I gather you put your hand on the blower, correct?

[00:22:43] Speaker 05:
to move it, and once it's locked in in the first axis configuration, so it's locked in either left or right, somewhere between 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock, it's locked in with bolts, then you loosen the clamp and then you can rotate it within that range of whether it was left or right.

[00:23:06] Speaker 05:
If it was set left in the beginning, you can't use the second axis to turn it to the right.

[00:23:12] Speaker 05:
You would have to unbolt it, correct?

[00:23:15] Speaker 02:
Your Honor, that's correct.

[00:23:18] Speaker 02:
That's one exemplary way to do it according to the patent.

[00:23:21] Speaker 02:
But nothing in the claim, actually.

[00:23:22] Speaker 05:
So the first axis is all about assembling the product in the beginning, bolting it in in such a way to have it either facing left or right.

[00:23:31] Speaker 05:
The second axis is adjusting the range of motion

[00:23:36] Speaker 05:
within that left or right direction that has been fixed in the first axis implementation, correct?

[00:23:43] Speaker 02:
Yes, Your Honor.

[00:23:44] Speaker 02:
But then that assembling is you have to rotate the blower first in the first axis rotation to orient the blower in the right way.

[00:23:51] Speaker 02:
So that is the first axis rotation required by the claim.

[00:23:56] Speaker 05:
If it came out of the box, it would be loose.

[00:24:00] Speaker 05:
The bolts wouldn't be fixed.

[00:24:02] Speaker 05:
So you would decide how you want to take it apart.

[00:24:06] Speaker 05:
I don't understand how you bolt the blower into the duct element.

[00:24:13] Speaker 05:
You use screws?

[00:24:14] Speaker 05:
How do you bolt it in?

[00:24:15] Speaker 02:
Yes, that's one exemplary means contemplated by the patent.

[00:24:20] Speaker 02:
You can see that on figure 24 and the disclosure in column 11.

[00:24:24] Speaker 05:
The first practice is all about achieving the assembly, achieving either the left or the right direction.

[00:24:32] Speaker 02:
Correct, Your Honor.

[00:24:36] Speaker 02:
And I see that I'm out of time.

[00:24:37] Speaker 02:
May I briefly address the guiding cover limitation in claim one?

[00:24:41] Speaker 02:
So Dometic's main argument is that the main body requires

[00:24:46] Speaker 02:
The patent requires the main body to be separate from the assembly and in its component the guiding cover, but nothing in the patent requires such separateness, and the presumption to the extent that it exists is rebutted.

[00:24:57] Speaker 05:
Do you agree that there is a presumption of separateness because of the way the claims are written?

[00:25:04] Speaker 02:
If it exists.

[00:25:05] Speaker 05:
The claim says three parts, one, two, three.

[00:25:07] Speaker 02:
Correct.

[00:25:08] Speaker 02:
The claim does.

[00:25:09] Speaker 05:
Under our law, does that create a presumption, yes or no?

[00:25:12] Speaker 02:
It appears that it might, but that's rebutted.

[00:25:15] Speaker 05:
It doesn't appear.

[00:25:16] Speaker 05:
Does it, yes or no?

[00:25:17] Speaker 02:
Yes, there is a presumption according to Google.

[00:25:20] Speaker 05:
And then to rebut the presumption, what is this test?

[00:25:25] Speaker 05:
Let me ask this question.

[00:25:27] Speaker 05:
Assume, for purposes of argument, that in the spec, there were four references that suggested that it was separate, and there were four that suggested that it wasn't.

[00:25:38] Speaker 05:
So assume, listen to me, please, if you said the spec is in equipoise, has the presumption been rebutted, yes or no?

[00:25:53] Speaker 02:
Yes or no?

[00:25:54] Speaker 02:
Well, if there are equal disclosures in the patent saying it can be separate or it cannot be, then you'd have to look at something else, like the prosecution history and so on.

[00:26:04] Speaker 05:
Soon there's nothing else to look at.

[00:26:05] Speaker 05:
I'm just talking about rebutting the presumption.

[00:26:09] Speaker 02:
I don't think this court has answered that question.

[00:26:13] Speaker 02:
You just have to look at the particular context of the patent.

[00:26:16] Speaker 02:
But here, nothing in the patent says the main body has to be separate from the assembly.

[00:26:22] Speaker 02:
For example, the abstract expressly says the main body includes the assembly and the guiding cover.

[00:26:28] Speaker 05:
The evidence that you have in the spec for saying that it doesn't have to be separate is the abstract, and then the reference saying that everything above the bottom is in the body.

[00:26:39] Speaker 02:
Correct, Your Honor.

[00:26:40] Speaker 05:
Those are the only two data points that you cite to in the spec, correct?

[00:26:44] Speaker 05:
There are more.

[00:26:45] Speaker 05:
Any more?

[00:26:47] Speaker 02:
Yes.

[00:26:47] Speaker 05:
Where?

[00:26:48] Speaker 02:
So the spec also says the air conditioner is... Can you give us the line?

[00:26:53] Speaker 02:
Yes, that's column 11, lines 24 to 25.

[00:26:56] Speaker 02:
24 to 25.

[00:27:01] Speaker 05:
The main body comprises a drain pan.

[00:27:03] Speaker 02:
That's where the specification says the air conditioner can largely be divided into a main body and the blower.

[00:27:12] Speaker 04:
And you want to read that as possibly a suggestion that this other part that's talked about must be part of one or the other.

[00:27:22] Speaker 04:
Correct, Your Honor.

[00:27:23] Speaker 02:
So everything is divided into either the main body or the blower.

[00:27:27] Speaker 02:
So component that is not labeled as part of the blower has to be part of the main body.

[00:27:33] Speaker 02:
Why?

[00:27:33] Speaker 02:
Because you have to read the patent as a whole.

[00:27:36] Speaker 02:
And the abstract expressly says the main body includes the assembly.

[00:27:41] Speaker 02:
The guiding cover.

[00:27:42] Speaker 05:
So there are three points then.

[00:27:45] Speaker 05:
Line 11 includes this main body blower also, everything mounted above it, and then the abstract.

[00:27:51] Speaker 05:
So those are the three data points that you point to in the specter about the presumption.

[00:27:56] Speaker 05:
Yes.

[00:27:58] Speaker 05:
Yes or no?

[00:28:01] Speaker 02:
Well, those three are the main ones.

[00:28:03] Speaker 05:
But when you say the main ones, I'm asking you, is there a point?

[00:28:06] Speaker 02:
Yes, those three are the ones that the commission cites.

[00:28:10] Speaker 05:
Right.

[00:28:11] Speaker 02:
Right, but then if you look at the portions that Dometic cites, for example, the one that says the air conditioner includes these components, right, the main body, the assembly, the blower, nothing in that statement says anything about the main body being separate, right?

[00:28:28] Speaker 05:
There is no statement in the patent where it says... The main body being separate from what?

[00:28:32] Speaker 02:
From the assembly and the guiding cover, Your Honor.

[00:28:36] Speaker 02:
There is no statement anywhere in the patent that says the main body has to be separate from the assembly and the guiding cover.

[00:28:46] Speaker 05:
There's nothing in the spec that says that.

[00:28:50] Speaker 05:
The claim, however, claims a main body and a blower.

[00:28:56] Speaker 05:
That would suggest pretty strongly that the main body and the blower are different structures.

[00:29:02] Speaker 02:
That's not disputed, Your Honor.

[00:29:05] Speaker 02:
No one disputes that the main body and the blower are separate.

[00:29:09] Speaker 05:
The dispute is whether the main body... It says they're in the blower and, so the blower is being distinct from the assembly in the claim.

[00:29:22] Speaker 02:
Yes, the blower, but that's really not an issue on this appeal, Your Honor.

[00:29:28] Speaker 02:
Whether the main body has to be separate from the blower.

[00:29:33] Speaker 02:
The patent does say, however, that they are separate.

[00:29:36] Speaker 02:
But the main dispute is whether the main body can include the assembly and the guiding cover.

[00:29:45] Speaker 02:
And the abstract expressly says that, right?

[00:29:51] Speaker 05:
I know the logic of your argument is that the assembly could be part of the blower.

[00:29:58] Speaker 05:
Because you're saying there are no separate and distinct elements.

[00:30:02] Speaker 05:
You're saying, in fact, you argue that the body, everything above the base is in the main body, including the blower.

[00:30:13] Speaker 05:
No, Your Honor, because you have to... You're even arguing that the blower and the main body are not separate.

[00:30:20] Speaker 05:
The logic of your argument?

[00:30:23] Speaker 05:
So the patent says... You understand what I'm saying?

[00:30:30] Speaker 05:
I mean, you're trying to draw a distinction between the blower and the assembly.

[00:30:36] Speaker 02:
Yes, Your Honor.

[00:30:37] Speaker 05:
The main body.

[00:30:37] Speaker 05:
It seems to me that you've got a problem.

[00:30:40] Speaker 02:
I'm not drawing the distinction between the assembly and the blower.

[00:30:46] Speaker 02:
I'm simply referring to Dometic's argument that requires the main body to be separate from the assembly and the guiding cover.

[00:30:57] Speaker 02:
But the patent abstract, for example, expressly says the opposite.

[00:31:03] Speaker 02:
It says the main body includes the assembly and the guiding cover.

[00:31:09] Speaker 02:
The issue is whether the main body includes the assembly.

[00:31:14] Speaker 04:
Let's hear from your supporting party.

[00:31:18] Speaker 02:
Thank you, Your Honor.

[00:31:40] Speaker 03:
Good morning, Your Honors, and may it please the Court.

[00:31:42] Speaker 03:
Paul Barkowski, I'm here on behalf of the interveners, who are the prevailing respondents below.

[00:31:50] Speaker 03:
With your indulgence, I'll pick up where Mr. Kim left off.

[00:31:55] Speaker 03:
Your Honor, Judge Clevenger, you asked if there's additional support in the specification for the notion that the main body includes the guiding cover.

[00:32:04] Speaker 03:
And there is.

[00:32:05] Speaker 03:
It's in the specification.

[00:32:06] Speaker 04:
That it can include.

[00:32:09] Speaker 03:
Guiding cover right not that it has to or you arguing that it has to I Would say probably the more accurate phrasing is that it can But what I'm going to point to I think pretty clearly shows And and what I'm going to point to is figure 10.

[00:32:27] Speaker 03:
It's at appendix 306 and in one of the Portions of the specification that mr.. Kim pointed to

[00:32:38] Speaker 03:
That's column 11, line 25.

[00:32:42] Speaker 03:
They assigned the main body reference number 4.

[00:32:48] Speaker 03:
So figure 10, this was actually added during prosecution, the reference number 4, to demonstrate what the main body is.

[00:32:56] Speaker 03:
So figure 10 is essentially a picture from the top of the guiding cover and all the components.

[00:33:05] Speaker 03:
I'm sorry, the drain pan and the components above it.

[00:33:09] Speaker 03:
And if you look closely, Your Honor, there's a circle protruding from the evaporator.

[00:33:14] Speaker 03:
And you can see it's bolted in at the top.

[00:33:16] Speaker 03:
That's the guide.

[00:33:17] Speaker 03:
Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:33:18] Speaker 04:
You just used the word evaporator, as though we should not be there on that picture.

[00:33:23] Speaker 03:
My apologies, Your Honor.

[00:33:24] Speaker 03:
So the evaporator is essentially the top of it is the rectangular piece.

[00:33:31] Speaker 03:
There's a circle at the top, and then there's a rectangular piece at the bottom.

[00:33:37] Speaker 03:
That's the evaporator.

[00:33:40] Speaker 01:
Which one, the circle or the?

[00:33:42] Speaker 03:
I'm sorry, the rectangle.

[00:33:44] Speaker 05:
There's one real rectangle, right?

[00:33:48] Speaker 03:
That's right.

[00:33:49] Speaker 03:
So the top of the evaporator is the rectangle at the bottom of that picture.

[00:33:53] Speaker 03:
And we're looking from the bottom up?

[00:33:55] Speaker 03:
No, we're looking from the top down.

[00:33:56] Speaker 03:
I'm sorry.

[00:33:59] Speaker 04:
This is terribly confusing.

[00:34:01] Speaker 04:
So we're looking from the top.

[00:34:02] Speaker 04:
But when you say top in talking about the picture, do you mean the top of the page or the bottom?

[00:34:07] Speaker 03:
I'll start again.

[00:34:08] Speaker 03:
Yeah, so at the top of the page is a circular portion.

[00:34:11] Speaker 05:
That would be the- Looks like sort of like a light bulb.

[00:34:14] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:34:15] Speaker 03:
That's really where the condensation is.

[00:34:16] Speaker 05:
Aren't you saying if we had one of these things in front of us, we would be standing up looking down at the top of it?

[00:34:21] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:34:21] Speaker 05:
That's what you're trying to do?

[00:34:22] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:34:23] Speaker 03:
And what point do you want to make about this?

[00:34:26] Speaker 03:
So the rectangular piece at the bottom of the picture.

[00:34:29] Speaker 04:
The whole bottom half of the picture.

[00:34:32] Speaker 04:
It's not at the bottom, right?

[00:34:34] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:34:35] Speaker 03:
That is the evaporator.

[00:34:36] Speaker 03:
The guiding cover covers the evaporator.

[00:34:41] Speaker 03:
And it has a protrusion from it.

[00:34:44] Speaker 05:
It's the cover over the evaporator.

[00:34:46] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:34:47] Speaker 03:
It covers the top.

[00:34:48] Speaker 05:
Not the evaporator.

[00:34:49] Speaker 05:
We're looking at the cover.

[00:34:52] Speaker 04:
The evaporator is a set of coils underneath this surface.

[00:34:56] Speaker 04:
Is that right?

[00:34:57] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:35:00] Speaker 05:
And the little lip that shows the two screws on it is holding the guiding cover in there, right?

[00:35:06] Speaker 03:
That's correct.

[00:35:07] Speaker 03:
And then if we were to look at the picture of the guiding cover,

[00:35:11] Speaker 03:
which has been pointed to a few times, it has a circular protrusion coming out of it.

[00:35:17] Speaker 01:
So you're talking about figure 22 and 23 now.

[00:35:19] Speaker 03:
Yeah, figure 22 shows the guiding cover.

[00:35:23] Speaker 03:
Figure 23 shows it.

[00:35:25] Speaker 03:
And you can see that circle that comes out of the guiding cover.

[00:35:30] Speaker 03:
And you can see that circle in figure 10, which depicts the main body.

[00:35:36] Speaker 05:
Where do you see the circle?

[00:35:38] Speaker 03:
The circle is now at the bottom of the picture.

[00:35:41] Speaker 03:
To the right.

[00:35:45] Speaker 04:
Where?

[00:35:46] Speaker 04:
In the lower half of the pit.

[00:35:47] Speaker 04:
When you say bottom, I'm looking at the bolt sticking at the bottom.

[00:35:51] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:35:52] Speaker 03:
You mean the hole?

[00:35:52] Speaker 03:
The lower half, the guiding cover covers the top of the evaporator and the front.

[00:35:59] Speaker 05:
That can't be so because the thing that has the two screws on it is the lip in figure 23.

[00:36:04] Speaker 05:
When we're looking at figure

[00:36:10] Speaker 05:
at 306, figure 10.

[00:36:16] Speaker 05:
And you see this lifting here is that.

[00:36:26] Speaker 03:
And those two screws are on the top of the evaporator?

[00:36:29] Speaker 05:
You're trying to show us where the guiding cover is in figure 10.

[00:36:33] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:36:35] Speaker 05:
The guiding cover has to be underneath the

[00:36:39] Speaker 05:
what I'm calling the lip that has the two screws on it, which is going down like this.

[00:36:43] Speaker 03:
Correct.

[00:36:44] Speaker 03:
And you can see that circular protrusion.

[00:36:46] Speaker 05:
Where is the circular protrusion?

[00:36:47] Speaker 05:
I don't see a circular protrusion.

[00:36:49] Speaker 03:
It's coming out of essentially what would be the front of the evaporator, which is in the lower half of the picture.

[00:36:58] Speaker 03:
It's the rectangular piece.

[00:36:59] Speaker 04:
Yes, I know where that is.

[00:37:00] Speaker 04:
It's bigger than the horizontal hanging tab that has the two screws on it.

[00:37:09] Speaker 04:
Correct.

[00:37:09] Speaker 04:
The guiding cover shown in 22 and 23 shows a circular protrusion that is certainly not wider across than the hanging tab.

[00:37:28] Speaker 03:
I understand, but there's a clarification.

[00:37:31] Speaker 03:
Can I ask you something?

[00:37:33] Speaker 01:
Is this in your brief at all?

[00:37:36] Speaker 03:
It's actually in Dometic's brief about the prosecution history where they added this.

[00:37:40] Speaker 01:
I'm just asking, like, pointing out figure 10 and pointing out where this is in figures.

[00:37:47] Speaker 03:
Is that in your brief?

[00:37:48] Speaker 03:
I don't think the figure 10 references.

[00:37:52] Speaker 03:
We cited to the text, which denotes it number four, to answer

[00:38:01] Speaker 03:
Judge Taranto's question, the tab that you're seeing is tab 212 in figure 22.

[00:38:07] Speaker 03:
So it's narrower than the guiding cover.

[00:38:10] Speaker 05:
And that's what makes it.

[00:38:11] Speaker 05:
In figure 10, you talked about the evaporator.

[00:38:15] Speaker 05:
We were looking at it.

[00:38:16] Speaker 05:
What's the round thing on top?

[00:38:19] Speaker 03:
I think there's a fair amount of componentry there.

[00:38:22] Speaker 03:
The biggest piece is a condenser.

[00:38:25] Speaker 05:
The round thing that sits on top of the evaporator is in figure 10.

[00:38:33] Speaker 05:
What is that globular structure that's sitting on top of the evaporator?

[00:38:40] Speaker 03:
It's on the top half of the picture.

[00:38:42] Speaker 03:
You see what I'm talking about, sir?

[00:38:43] Speaker 03:
Can you?

[00:38:45] Speaker 03:
This thing.

[00:38:45] Speaker 03:
That's the condenser.

[00:38:46] Speaker 05:
What is that?

[00:38:47] Speaker 03:
The condenser.

[00:38:48] Speaker 05:
Condenser.

[00:38:49] Speaker 05:
Where would the blower be?

[00:38:51] Speaker 03:
The blower would connect into the evaporator at the guiding cover.

[00:38:57] Speaker 05:
And what's the little nub looking down on the top, the little nub that's sticking out to the right of the evaporator in Figure 10?

[00:39:08] Speaker 03:
That's just a portion of the drain pan, Your Honor.

[00:39:11] Speaker 05:
Of which?

[00:39:12] Speaker 03:
Of the drain pan.

[00:39:14] Speaker 05:
OK.

[00:39:18] Speaker 03:
If I could turn to the...

[00:39:25] Speaker 03:
to the first and second axis question.

[00:39:28] Speaker 04:
And you're using trying to keep this crisp?

[00:39:34] Speaker 03:
I will.

[00:39:35] Speaker 03:
Judge Stoller, you asked a question about the first and second axis in a claim one.

[00:39:40] Speaker 03:
And we made a point at page 43 to 44 of our brief that if you were to interpret

[00:39:47] Speaker 03:
one type of rotation, that is the rotation of the duct element around the guiding cover to satisfy both axes, you could equally and claim one have a situation where that rotation of the entire duct element around the guiding cover to adjust the orientation of the blower could satisfy the fan blade rotation.

[00:40:10] Speaker 03:
In Dometic's reply, page 24 to 25, they basically said, that's correct.

[00:40:14] Speaker 03:
And that the rotation of the entire assembly with the blower would satisfy that.

[00:40:20] Speaker 03:
And I think that points out essentially the issue that goes to the heart of this case, that those first and second axes have to refer to different structures rotating about different axes.

[00:40:33] Speaker 03:
Or else what you have is an important element that was added to gain allowability.

[00:40:39] Speaker 03:
and that the inventor describes the crux of the invention being read entirely out of the claim.

[00:40:43] Speaker 03:
And everything can be achieved by one type of rotation.

[00:40:47] Speaker 03:
And with your indulgence, I appreciate that, Your Honor.

[00:40:50] Speaker 03:
I'll leave the rest of my time.

[00:40:51] Speaker 03:
Thank you.

[00:41:02] Speaker 04:
You have five minutes.

[00:41:04] Speaker 00:
Thank you, Your Honor.

[00:41:06] Speaker 00:
I'd like to respond to a couple points raised by counsel.

[00:41:09] Speaker 00:
First, commission counsel referenced, with respect to the Claim 18 issue, a disclosure on column 12 of the patent as allegedly disclosing a rotation.

[00:41:23] Speaker 00:
This is the issue you guys were discussing about, installation.

[00:41:27] Speaker 00:
At line 10, that specifically states that it relates to attached at a predetermined orientation.

[00:41:33] Speaker 00:
And that disclosure only ever gives one orientation that anybody would ever attach the blower at.

[00:41:40] Speaker 00:
One that allows it, when it's rotated around the axis, to not go above the top of the blower or the main body.

[00:41:46] Speaker 00:
There's no disclosure of a second orientation somebody would attach it at.

[00:41:50] Speaker 00:
There's no disclosure of a reason to do anything other than that one predetermined orientation.

[00:41:56] Speaker 00:
And that's not rotation.

[00:41:58] Speaker 00:
That is just one

[00:42:00] Speaker 00:
suggested way of installing it.

[00:42:02] Speaker 00:
It never says, you should uncouple it, rotate it, and recouple it.

[00:42:06] Speaker 00:
It never says, here are three different possible ways.

[00:42:09] Speaker 04:
I thought you had indicated, and just correct everything that's wrong in what I'm about to say, that you had indicated that you thought rotate and adjust were synonymous, relevantly here, so that unscrewing and then

[00:42:29] Speaker 04:
turning to a different set of whole screw combinations would be a form of rotation, because it's certainly a form of adjustment, unless your view is that the rotations here have to be available without any kind of dismantling.

[00:42:56] Speaker 00:
Our view is you're correct.

[00:42:58] Speaker 00:
We have said that rotate and adjust, as used in the claims, are synonymous.

[00:43:05] Speaker 00:
And that's because in each case, it refers to about and access.

[00:43:09] Speaker 00:
But not every place in the specification uses the terms in that way.

[00:43:15] Speaker 00:
For example, column three, line seven to 10, states a method of adjusting an air conditioning device.

[00:43:22] Speaker 00:
We're not talking about rotating the entire air conditioning device.

[00:43:25] Speaker 00:
So not every time in the specification that it says adjust is it synonymous with rotate.

[00:43:31] Speaker 00:
You have to look at what follows.

[00:43:33] Speaker 00:
Is it talking about taking it from one orientation to another?

[00:43:38] Speaker 00:
And our position, and hopefully this answers your question, is that column 12 doesn't refer to anything more than one position.

[00:43:45] Speaker 00:
So when it says adjust, it's not talking about rotating and changing from, say, the 3 o'clock to the 9 o'clock position.

[00:43:52] Speaker 00:
It's saying, this is how you should install it.

[00:43:55] Speaker 00:
And our position is that's not rotating.

[00:43:58] Speaker 00:
Another point I would like to respond to, can you tell me

[00:44:05] Speaker 04:
whether I should continue or stop thinking about my cup, lid, spigot combination in thinking about what's going on here.

[00:44:17] Speaker 00:
I think that analogy is incorrect, because in that analogy, you clearly disclose two different ways of altering.

[00:44:27] Speaker 00:
The patent never discloses a second way of rotating the blower.

[00:44:32] Speaker 00:
Every time it talks about rotation, it's talking about the fan blades.

[00:44:35] Speaker 00:
or the assembly-driven rotation.

[00:44:38] Speaker 00:
So I think maybe if a specification fully describes something in the way you describe, it could be considered disclosed.

[00:44:44] Speaker 00:
But that's not applicable here.

[00:44:47] Speaker 00:
Turning to guiding cover, council pointed out two additional places that they contend show that the guiding cover can be part of the main body.

[00:44:57] Speaker 00:
The first part was column 11, lines 24 to 25.

[00:45:05] Speaker 00:
And commission counsel said that this states, the air conditioner can largely be divided into a main body four and the blower two.

[00:45:14] Speaker 00:
Counsel omitted the three words prior, where it says, in fig one.

[00:45:19] Speaker 00:
And in fig one, you cannot see the entirety of the guiding cover or the assembly.

[00:45:26] Speaker 00:
They're obstructed.

[00:45:28] Speaker 00:
So what that is saying is, what you can see in Figure 1 can largely be divided.

[00:45:34] Speaker 00:
There's a lot of stuff that you can't see.

[00:45:36] Speaker 00:
So I don't believe that that reference supports their position.

[00:45:41] Speaker 00:
The second part is this Figure 10 argument that Intervenor Council was discussing.

[00:45:48] Speaker 00:
As Your Honor indicated, that was not in their briefing.

[00:45:51] Speaker 04:
Can I just ask this?

[00:45:52] Speaker 04:
So this has, I guess, what I would

[00:45:57] Speaker 04:
going to ask you about is whether figure one helps see why there might be something to the argument we heard about figure 10, which we were pressing back on by saying, if we look at figure 10, what was suggested to be

[00:46:21] Speaker 04:
The opening for the guiding, the slightly cylindrical opening for the guiding cover, seems much bigger than the hanging tab on the top.

[00:46:33] Speaker 04:
And at least figure 22 and 23 show the hanging tab to be as wide

[00:46:41] Speaker 04:
as the diameter of the opening.

[00:46:45] Speaker 04:
When I'm looking at figure 1, I think I'm seeing something more like what's in figure 10 as described.

[00:46:52] Speaker 04:
A hanging tab.

[00:46:54] Speaker 04:
And then the guiding cover here is, I think, 170.

[00:46:59] Speaker 04:
And it extends.

[00:47:00] Speaker 04:
It has a much larger diameter than the long side of the hanging tab.

[00:47:07] Speaker 04:
That looks like figure 10.

[00:47:14] Speaker 04:
It may look like figure 10.

[00:47:17] Speaker 04:
Including the little nub, I think was the technical term used before for the drain pan at the bottom.

[00:47:23] Speaker 00:
Yes.

[00:47:23] Speaker 00:
The nub is not the guiding cover.

[00:47:25] Speaker 00:
But 170 is.

[00:47:28] Speaker 00:
I believe 170.

[00:47:29] Speaker 04:
170 is the flat surface, right?

[00:47:33] Speaker 00:
Yes, the flat surface of the guiding cover.

[00:47:35] Speaker 04:
But the guiding cover is shown there.

[00:47:36] Speaker 04:
You can see the little feet sticking out.

[00:47:40] Speaker 00:
You can see most of the guiding cover.

[00:47:42] Speaker 00:
Some of it's inside the blower.

[00:47:44] Speaker 00:
I think what would help illuminate this is if you look at column 5, line 17, it doesn't state that this is just the main body.

[00:47:58] Speaker 00:
It says that this is the air conditioner with the covers.

[00:48:03] Speaker 00:
There might be a four pointing to this figure 10.

[00:48:07] Speaker 00:
I don't think you can interpret figure 10 as only being the main body.

[00:48:13] Speaker 00:
That four doesn't have a circle around it.

[00:48:16] Speaker 00:
The description of this describes us as the air conditioner, not the main body.

[00:48:21] Speaker 00:
It mentions covers, which

[00:48:23] Speaker 00:
There's several different kinds of covers referenced in the patent.

[00:48:26] Speaker 00:
But so I don't think that this can be viewed as limiting.

[00:48:28] Speaker 00:
And regardless, that argument has been forfeit because it was never raised in briefing.

[00:48:33] Speaker 01:
I wasn't necessarily suggesting it was forfeited.

[00:48:36] Speaker 01:
I just thought that if it was in the brief, it would be helpful to see it if there was colored coded figures or something, color coding or something.

[00:48:44] Speaker 01:
I do think the patent itself is of record and arguments can be made.

[00:48:50] Speaker 01:
Go ahead and address the merits of it.

[00:48:52] Speaker 00:
I understand you're not suggesting it was forfeited.

[00:48:55] Speaker 00:
We have looked.

[00:48:56] Speaker 00:
That specific argument wasn't raised.

[00:48:58] Speaker 00:
But on the merits, if you look at the description of this figure, it does not say this figure only includes the main body.

[00:49:04] Speaker 00:
It says this is the air conditioning unit, which that includes a lot of different things.

[00:49:08] Speaker 00:
And I think that right there refutes their point.

[00:49:10] Speaker 00:
I see I'm over the gracious amount of time you gave me.

[00:49:13] Speaker 00:
Thank you, Your Honors.

[00:49:15] Speaker 04:
Thank you.

[00:49:16] Speaker 04:
Thanks to all counsel.

[00:49:17] Speaker 04:
Cases submitted.